An equally frustrating and bizarrely satisfying read, we need to see less placative talk from those trying to get stuff done and more blunt discussion about the shambles of systems we have in this country, and calling out of selfish, damaging attitudes that should have stopped being entertained to the extent they are a long time ago.
badger-biscuits on
Well personally I object
Reflector123 on
Absolutely agree.
We need more progress on public initiatives.
Everything is painfully slow.
The Metro to the airport should be done by now
No_Square_739 on
Well, maybe if they had a little ambition to truly fix the problems, we would make a little headway.
We don’t need more buses, we need less. There should be 3 undergrounds and 6+ major tramlines in Dublin by now. Instead we just have more buses on clogged up roads.
The 2 luas lines went live in 2004. That’s 20 years ago; and nothing since. The DART (as we know it) went live in 1984; and nothing since.
feedthebear on
If they left earlier they’d be on time. Nothing but excuses from the drivers all the way up to the executives.
OldVillageNuaGuitar on
People love to look to the metro plans on this but ironically that’s the sort of project where an exhaustive process is most justified.
If we widen a road to include a bus lane and later realise that it’s the wrong road, that’s not that big an issue. It won’t be hard to reallocate that space. If we put the metro in the wrong place though, we’re stuck with it. Fixing it will be expensive, if its even possible. Same would be true of major motorways, big hospitals or maybe an airport (looking at you Cork…).
What’s very frustrating to me is seeing an attitude that is deserved on big projects being applied right the way down. Cycle lanes taking years to implement. Bus lane proposals going for multiple rounds of consultation (still Cork there…). We’d be better off building the fucking thing then fixing the problems down the road, rather than spending a decade trying to build it right and still fucking it up because we decided to compromise with everyone.
Infinaris on
The NIMBY Wars continues….
Key-Lie-364 on
There’s nothing inherently wrong about allowing all sorts of people to object to all sorts of things.
The problem is the seriousness with which those objections are treated, the duration, the scope and the seeming ability to use the system in a vexatious manner to effectively shut down initiatives you oppose.
Planning objections are like going to trial. Really there should be some kind of vetting office that evaluates whether an objection has any merit for further examination.
A planning DPP. If your objection is deemed vexatious or frivolous or without merit, you don’t even get as far as an bord plenala.
At the very least this should be the case for strategic projects.
It is unacceptable for Ireland to spend so long, an opportunity cost stymied in such frivolous crap that it seems any gobshite can dream up.
The national development plan should list a number of projects which have a highly circumscribed right of objection.
We will never build bus lanes, trams, Metros, trains, schools or the very large number of dwellings we need at this rate.
Something’s gotta give.
Edit:
I’ll give a practical example. My street is to become one way as a result of Busconnects.
That’s inconvenient for me but then if it didn’t become one way, I’d be flooded with traffic displaced from the new bus lane.
Did I object to this change?
Did I fuck!
From a purely selfish perspective yeah the one way is annoying but then, we get a dedicated bus lane, with segregated cycle lanes, basically exactly what my kids will need.
My car and my inconvenience is my problem..
Maybe 🤔 I’ll take the bus
nomnomtastic on
Arguably, those who are objecting and shout “No Corridor here” are the ones who create the most challenges. Holding strong with their Centra, pub, paint shop, along with the metre space on their garden if such a route was implemented – despite payouts – are of more importance than a functioning transport link and communal service which they wouldn’t even use anyway.
9 Comments
An equally frustrating and bizarrely satisfying read, we need to see less placative talk from those trying to get stuff done and more blunt discussion about the shambles of systems we have in this country, and calling out of selfish, damaging attitudes that should have stopped being entertained to the extent they are a long time ago.
Well personally I object
Absolutely agree.
We need more progress on public initiatives.
Everything is painfully slow.
The Metro to the airport should be done by now
Well, maybe if they had a little ambition to truly fix the problems, we would make a little headway.
We don’t need more buses, we need less. There should be 3 undergrounds and 6+ major tramlines in Dublin by now. Instead we just have more buses on clogged up roads.
The 2 luas lines went live in 2004. That’s 20 years ago; and nothing since. The DART (as we know it) went live in 1984; and nothing since.
If they left earlier they’d be on time. Nothing but excuses from the drivers all the way up to the executives.
People love to look to the metro plans on this but ironically that’s the sort of project where an exhaustive process is most justified.
If we widen a road to include a bus lane and later realise that it’s the wrong road, that’s not that big an issue. It won’t be hard to reallocate that space. If we put the metro in the wrong place though, we’re stuck with it. Fixing it will be expensive, if its even possible. Same would be true of major motorways, big hospitals or maybe an airport (looking at you Cork…).
What’s very frustrating to me is seeing an attitude that is deserved on big projects being applied right the way down. Cycle lanes taking years to implement. Bus lane proposals going for multiple rounds of consultation (still Cork there…). We’d be better off building the fucking thing then fixing the problems down the road, rather than spending a decade trying to build it right and still fucking it up because we decided to compromise with everyone.
The NIMBY Wars continues….
There’s nothing inherently wrong about allowing all sorts of people to object to all sorts of things.
The problem is the seriousness with which those objections are treated, the duration, the scope and the seeming ability to use the system in a vexatious manner to effectively shut down initiatives you oppose.
Planning objections are like going to trial. Really there should be some kind of vetting office that evaluates whether an objection has any merit for further examination.
A planning DPP. If your objection is deemed vexatious or frivolous or without merit, you don’t even get as far as an bord plenala.
At the very least this should be the case for strategic projects.
It is unacceptable for Ireland to spend so long, an opportunity cost stymied in such frivolous crap that it seems any gobshite can dream up.
The national development plan should list a number of projects which have a highly circumscribed right of objection.
We will never build bus lanes, trams, Metros, trains, schools or the very large number of dwellings we need at this rate.
Something’s gotta give.
Edit:
I’ll give a practical example. My street is to become one way as a result of Busconnects.
That’s inconvenient for me but then if it didn’t become one way, I’d be flooded with traffic displaced from the new bus lane.
Did I object to this change?
Did I fuck!
From a purely selfish perspective yeah the one way is annoying but then, we get a dedicated bus lane, with segregated cycle lanes, basically exactly what my kids will need.
My car and my inconvenience is my problem..
Maybe 🤔 I’ll take the bus
Arguably, those who are objecting and shout “No Corridor here” are the ones who create the most challenges. Holding strong with their Centra, pub, paint shop, along with the metre space on their garden if such a route was implemented – despite payouts – are of more importance than a functioning transport link and communal service which they wouldn’t even use anyway.