It wasn’t until it came up in conversation with a group of non Irish people that it hit me how big a deal this is. They wanted to know the meaning of my surname, and I explained that it had no meaning in English, but that it was phonetically transcribed from an Irish name that sounds only vaguely similar. They all thought this was outrageous and started probing me with questions about when exactly it changed, and why it wasn’t changed back. I couldn’t really answer them. It wasn’t something I’d been raised to care about. But the more I think about it, it is very fucked up.
The loss of our language was of course devastating for our culture, but the loss of our names, apparently some of the oldest in Europefeels more personal. Most people today can’t seriously imagine changing their surname back to the original Irish version (myself included). It’s hard not to see this as a testament to the overall success of Britain’s destruction of our culture.
Irish people are too apathetic about the anglicisation of their surnames
byu/D-dog92 inireland
Posted by D-dog92
30 Comments
Speak for yourself. Neither my name nor my language define who I am, or what my culture is.
It’s fairly low down on my list of priorities if I am to be honest. But you can always change yours back to the original version fairly easily if you want to preserve it.
You reminded me about this actually. My Irish teachers always insisted on translating my surnames into Irish, despite the fact that both surnames are French. No meaning in Irish!
OK then.
Use your Irish Surname, next time you renew your passport change the name there, and go by your Irish Surname.
Change your own back. I did.
> and I explained that it had no meaning in English, but that it was phonetically transcribed from an Irish name that sounds only vaguely similar
Do you go by the Irish version now?
I don’t even know if my surname is Anglicized or actually the original English since my great grandfather was an orangeman.
I don’t really care either lol
Many of the surnames translations to Irish are brutal
Is there any directory for our surnames as Gaeilge?
I sort of agree with you from a moral standpoint, but from a practical standpoint, I find using my anglicised name (both first and last name) makes life an awful lot easier when travelling abroad etc
Hills I’m not going to die on for 800 please Alex
I’m not apathetic, I just don’t care about it.
My surname translates as “speckled one”, now really, what do l derive from that as an individual, that my Irish ancestors were freckle-faced?
You can check out some common and obscure Irish names and their English versions [here](https://www.na-ring-gael.com)
Seriously OP, ignore 90% of the comments here – groany shites.
I think it’s great that you’re thinking about this and reflecting on our history and the loss of our language and culture. I’ve started slowly using the Irish spelling of my first name informally. It feels good.
Reminds me of the line from ‘Thousands are Sailing’ that always gives me goosebumps – ‘and I didn’t even get so far that they could change my name’.
Tír gan teanga is tír gan anam.
So do I use the original Norman of my name then or the makey uppy Irish version?
I changed mine back. My parents thought it was a bit strange, but I speak Irish and all my children go to a local Gaelscoil. My surname never really sat well with me until I changed it. I changed it when I was renewing my passport. All my children have the Irish version on their birth cert.
I didn’t know we could change our names. Will be looking into it.
English people can’t even pronounce the anglicised version of my surname (which really bothers me) so I’m starting to phase in the Irish version at work (in England). Id rather hear people struggle with that than assume they know how to pronounce the English version and get it totally wrong. I think it is important that we reclaim our language, and I wish I’d had more exposure to it growing up.
Eh, on the one hand I like the idea of changing it back, but I’ve lived in England for the last 20 years and thinking about having to spell it out constantly doesn’t really appeal.
I might still do it thinking about it mind. Could be interesting.
It is deeply sad. I changed my name, and use an Irish-language one. I encourage thinking about your own and what you’d like to do.
The part of the successful destruction of our culture that stands out to me is how little is known about our clothing. There are a few descriptions of details — a yellow dye we were famous for, we know a garment called a great coat existed — a few things like this.
But these garments died out after woodcuts, after the Guttenburg press — they were entirely erased.
It’s actually kind of mind blowing how successful that erasure was, when you consider how many “folk costumes”/ancestral garments did survive empires and colonization.
I’d add to this that we are very complacent about translations of place names.
It’s an interesting thing to know whether a place is named after a geographic feature, a prominent person or family, or something else.
However many of our placenames, like our surnames are just “heres how it sounds in this other language”, which is much less interesting , doesn’t add anything new… Just removes or deletes and potentially leaves you disconnected from your world/heritage.
And ultimately your name is, your name, nobody should be forcing a translation onto you.
The Irish version of my name arrived in the area shortly before the Vikings; we know my family were using an anglicised version in 1802 but not when they started. It’s not a happy chapter of our history and none of the harm can be undone by any of us, we just have to decide how to move forward with what survived and developed since then.
Just personally, the anglicised version is the form that’s ‘my’ name – it’s what connects me to my immediate forebears, and that resonates with me more than links into the deeper past. But I think it’s important to remember where it came from and how we got here.
I’m bengali Indian and the English were at it for our surnames as well I guess. We sort of kept both – you write the bengali spelling and pronunciation when you write it in bengali and the english one when writing in english. But since education and my work are purely in english, I almost never have used the bengali version of my surname. Which is a shame, when I think of it.
(My surname means ‘lion’ in bengali – means nothing in english just a close approximation that I guess my great great grandfather thought everyone would be able to write and pronounce).
The variations in Irish names tells a rich and interesting story and I wouldn’t be in favour of forcing people to “normalise” their names. Totally on board for people using whatever form they want though!
“It’s hard not to see this as a testament to the overall success of Britain’s destruction of our culture.” TBH I believe it ( to some extent) was done so we wouldn’t be able to tell who was who, keeping in mind that the majority of Barons/Lords are related to the royals and are still living here.
I would like to change my last name to its form as gaeilge, but I’m waiting until I have become more fluent in gaeilge before I do. I just think it’s a bit hollow to use the Irish version if I don’t have a good enough grasp of the Irish language first.
It’s mad to me that we didn’t just all do this post independence.
You are absolutely right, and I feel the same about place names, they should be taken back, as in, the Irish names should be the only ones on the road signs. India is doing/has done that, so why can’t Ireland?
I’m currently a bit more concerned about the anglicisation of our terrorists
/s
My biggest issue is the O’ which most websites don’t accept so I’ve dropped using the apostrophe altogether except on my signature.