Nice news but this is like the 10th time i am seeing this same news on this sub. Mods be sleeping i guess
lmsoa941 on
This is very likely a political move and not necessarily an advantage (or a disadvantage) in terms of the military.
Yes, yes, military diversification is good for us. That’s not my point.
After purchasing the French military radars (And other stuff) in the symbolic deal signing. French **senators** suggested that France should consider selling Armenia Caesar artillery. At a time when Armenia wasn’t really interested in buying them. Probably pushed by lobbying. https://armenpress.am/en/article/1125467
Military expert like Leonid Nersissian and Vova Vartanov also mentioned that “Now that we have the MarG’s we don’t really need Caesar system”.
And **even they agree that selling us this artillery is already too LATE**:
> Aussi recommandent-ils d’étudier, à cet égard et dans les « meilleurs délais », la livraison de CAESAr à l’armée arménienne, « compte tenu de l’efficacité de ce matériel et des nouvelles capacités de production de Nexter en 2024 ». Seulement, cette proposition risque d’être… trop tardive puisque Erevan a déjà commandé des obusiers automoteurs à roues MArG 155 de 155 mm auprès du groupe indien Bharat Forge Kalyani Group…
translated:
>Therefore, they recommend studying, in this regard and as soon as possible, the delivery of CAESAr to the Armenian army, “given the effectiveness of this equipment and Nexter’s new production capacities in 2024”. **Only, this proposal may be… too late since Yerevan has already ordered 155 mm MArG 155 mm self-propelled howitzers from the Indian group Bharat Forge Kalyani Group…**
Of course, this was done by Macron who promised to “provide systems to not only Ukraine, but all countries of Europe and NATO, by providing their security needs”.
France will only need to deliver 78 artilleries to Ukraine, of which 49 has already been done since April. And now by assuming they are producing 6 per month, that’s already 71 done. And 78 almost finished. Even if we consider the fact that 18 were donated from Denmark (Thereforew France will also need to deliver 18 to Denmark), 12 per month is too high of a manufacturing number to justify it.
So for justification to up the production to **12** per month, France needs justification and a country other than Ukraine that also wants to buy the system. Here comes Armenia. This brings them money to allow the possibility for high manufacturing, and political force for them.
It is said that 12 systems cost around 50 million Euros. (3-4.5 million each).
The system fires (with its normal shells) at 40km. While its advanced shells fire at 55km. While not much is known about the MarG’s I would assume that the difference with the CAESER is the lack of highly advanced navigation system, and an automated gun system allowing it to be used by 2 people.
In contrast, Azerbaijan has bought Serbian NORA B-52 system (56KM with advanced ammunition), both are built to do the same things, and almost all have the same specifications, except that the Serbian one is a bit slower, but has a higher range of operation.
We will also probably receive the CAESER way faster than they will receive the NORA anyway
T-nash on
Well I won’t complain having more of the same weapons but I would have loved to see more advanced one too.
Let’s see how Georgia will handle the transportation with the recent relationship setback with EU, even anti EU rhetoric by their government.
woznie on
Who could have thought that one day Armenians will discuss whether a French artillery system is a good or bad purchase.
4 Comments
Nice news but this is like the 10th time i am seeing this same news on this sub. Mods be sleeping i guess
This is very likely a political move and not necessarily an advantage (or a disadvantage) in terms of the military.
Yes, yes, military diversification is good for us. That’s not my point.
After purchasing the French military radars (And other stuff) in the symbolic deal signing. French **senators** suggested that France should consider selling Armenia Caesar artillery. At a time when Armenia wasn’t really interested in buying them. Probably pushed by lobbying. https://armenpress.am/en/article/1125467
Military expert like Leonid Nersissian and Vova Vartanov also mentioned that “Now that we have the MarG’s we don’t really need Caesar system”.
Nevertheless, there was a clear push by French representatives (including French experts that talked about Armenia) to sell us the Caesars. https://www.opex360.com/2023/11/30/artillerie-bientot-des-caesar-pour-larmee-armenienne/
And **even they agree that selling us this artillery is already too LATE**:
> Aussi recommandent-ils d’étudier, à cet égard et dans les « meilleurs délais », la livraison de CAESAr à l’armée arménienne, « compte tenu de l’efficacité de ce matériel et des nouvelles capacités de production de Nexter en 2024 ». Seulement, cette proposition risque d’être… trop tardive puisque Erevan a déjà commandé des obusiers automoteurs à roues MArG 155 de 155 mm auprès du groupe indien Bharat Forge Kalyani Group…
translated:
>Therefore, they recommend studying, in this regard and as soon as possible, the delivery of CAESAr to the Armenian army, “given the effectiveness of this equipment and Nexter’s new production capacities in 2024”. **Only, this proposal may be… too late since Yerevan has already ordered 155 mm MArG 155 mm self-propelled howitzers from the Indian group Bharat Forge Kalyani Group…**
**Coincidentally**, it comes at a time when France also revealed that they are doubling their production of the artillery system, which started from 2 per month, to 6 per month, and now will become **12 per month**. https://www.revolutionpermanente.fr/Doublement-de-la-production-de-canons-CAESAR-Macron-accelere-la-cadence-militariste#:~:text=Le%20«%20canon%20Caesar%20est%20devenu,»%2C%20a%20déclaré%20le%20ministre.
Of course, this was done by Macron who promised to “provide systems to not only Ukraine, but all countries of Europe and NATO, by providing their security needs”.
France will only need to deliver 78 artilleries to Ukraine, of which 49 has already been done since April. And now by assuming they are producing 6 per month, that’s already 71 done. And 78 almost finished. Even if we consider the fact that 18 were donated from Denmark (Thereforew France will also need to deliver 18 to Denmark), 12 per month is too high of a manufacturing number to justify it.
So for justification to up the production to **12** per month, France needs justification and a country other than Ukraine that also wants to buy the system. Here comes Armenia. This brings them money to allow the possibility for high manufacturing, and political force for them.
It is said that 12 systems cost around 50 million Euros. (3-4.5 million each).
The system fires (with its normal shells) at 40km. While its advanced shells fire at 55km. While not much is known about the MarG’s I would assume that the difference with the CAESER is the lack of highly advanced navigation system, and an automated gun system allowing it to be used by 2 people.
In contrast, Azerbaijan has bought Serbian NORA B-52 system (56KM with advanced ammunition), both are built to do the same things, and almost all have the same specifications, except that the Serbian one is a bit slower, but has a higher range of operation.
We will also probably receive the CAESER way faster than they will receive the NORA anyway
Well I won’t complain having more of the same weapons but I would have loved to see more advanced one too.
Let’s see how Georgia will handle the transportation with the recent relationship setback with EU, even anti EU rhetoric by their government.
Who could have thought that one day Armenians will discuss whether a French artillery system is a good or bad purchase.