Looks like Spain is trying to have their military on Gibraltar despite two referendums done before (1967, 2002) going against Spanish sovereignty. I guess the fear is that there is an invasion risk? (Unlikely, but Russia remains a UN member despite Ukraine).
haphazard_chore on
Nope, nope and nope! If Starmer gives them an inch he’s done for! Why the hell is us giving sovereignty away? What about all the other countries. What about the Spanish enclave in Northern Africa?
Captain-Griffen on
Spain wants border patrol personnel on one end of the Gibraltar border. Either in Gibraltar’s port/airport, or the Spain-Gibraltar border. Very reasonable.
It’s what we voted for. Now we/Gibraltar need to pick our poison.
wombatking888 on
I’m sure the F.O. will be advising Starmer to accept. Anything but actually stand up for British interests.
BristolShambler on
> SPANISH FORCES ON ROCK
…is a rather alarmist way of framing this debate, which is ultimately about the minutiae of passport control.
Gibraltar is part of Schengen, so they need Schengen passport checks as people arrive at the rock. Both sides agree on this, it is not up for debate. Spain wants them carried out by their border force, the UK wants it carried out by the pan-EU border force.
mancunian101 on
Not sure a handful of Spanish border agents on Gibraltar is going to suddenly lead to Spain getting control of them.
A better option would be for the EU border force to do it rather than the Spanish.
It would keep the Gibraltarians happy and would enable the necessary Schengen zone checks to be carried out.
kahnindustries on
Sounds like we need to start filling the rock with cannon again
bateau_du_gateau on
Looks like we need to sink the Spanish fleet. Again.
thecraftybee1981 on
Can’t Gibraltar put up a new fast ferry service to Morocco and get workers from there instead?
NorthernScrub on
This face scanning and fingerprinting nonsense feels very invasive. Not just for us in the UK, but anyone entering the EU. I can’t say I like the idea at all.
wkavinsky on
Either way, it’s far more of a problem for Spanish citizens that work in Gibraltar than the Gibraltan’s that live on the Rock – AKA, never going to happen.
Ok-Hat-3229 on
I expect Labour to give Gibraltar away. Anything that removes England’s magnificent history. This government should be prosecuted for treason.
Happytallperson on
By the definition of this London Britain has CEDED CONTROL OF LONDON TO FRENCH FORCES by having French passport officers at St Pancras International.Â
Christ….no wonder we don’t seem able to have sensible discussions in this land anymore.
Glanwy on
Thing is, surely most visitors are Spanish workers. Then logically this will affect that workforce the most.
Known_Week_158 on
The issue with comparing this to France is that France hasn’t exactly expressed in an interest in taking territory that belongs to the UK where the people who live in said territory have repeatedly said in referendums that they want to remain in the UK.
Spain has shown a refusal to accept the will of the people of Gibraltar.
Especially given how the return of the Chagos Islands, regardless of other factors, did show a capitulation to the UN’s hypocrisy on colonialism (the UN doesn’t care if a non-Western country did it), the UK cannot afford to even slightly reduce the sovereignty it has in territories like Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands.
u/mancunian101 explained it well. “I agree that the Spanish don’t seem to be being unreasonable, I guess it’s just whether things start to expand, just an extra couple of border agents, can he have a couple of patrol boats in the harbour etc etc.”
15 Comments
Looks like Spain is trying to have their military on Gibraltar despite two referendums done before (1967, 2002) going against Spanish sovereignty. I guess the fear is that there is an invasion risk? (Unlikely, but Russia remains a UN member despite Ukraine).
Nope, nope and nope! If Starmer gives them an inch he’s done for! Why the hell is us giving sovereignty away? What about all the other countries. What about the Spanish enclave in Northern Africa?
Spain wants border patrol personnel on one end of the Gibraltar border. Either in Gibraltar’s port/airport, or the Spain-Gibraltar border. Very reasonable.
It’s what we voted for. Now we/Gibraltar need to pick our poison.
I’m sure the F.O. will be advising Starmer to accept. Anything but actually stand up for British interests.
> SPANISH FORCES ON ROCK
…is a rather alarmist way of framing this debate, which is ultimately about the minutiae of passport control.
Gibraltar is part of Schengen, so they need Schengen passport checks as people arrive at the rock. Both sides agree on this, it is not up for debate. Spain wants them carried out by their border force, the UK wants it carried out by the pan-EU border force.
Not sure a handful of Spanish border agents on Gibraltar is going to suddenly lead to Spain getting control of them.
A better option would be for the EU border force to do it rather than the Spanish.
It would keep the Gibraltarians happy and would enable the necessary Schengen zone checks to be carried out.
Sounds like we need to start filling the rock with cannon again
Looks like we need to sink the Spanish fleet. Again.
Can’t Gibraltar put up a new fast ferry service to Morocco and get workers from there instead?
This face scanning and fingerprinting nonsense feels very invasive. Not just for us in the UK, but anyone entering the EU. I can’t say I like the idea at all.
Either way, it’s far more of a problem for Spanish citizens that work in Gibraltar than the Gibraltan’s that live on the Rock – AKA, never going to happen.
I expect Labour to give Gibraltar away. Anything that removes England’s magnificent history. This government should be prosecuted for treason.
By the definition of this London Britain has CEDED CONTROL OF LONDON TO FRENCH FORCES by having French passport officers at St Pancras International.Â
Christ….no wonder we don’t seem able to have sensible discussions in this land anymore.
Thing is, surely most visitors are Spanish workers. Then logically this will affect that workforce the most.
The issue with comparing this to France is that France hasn’t exactly expressed in an interest in taking territory that belongs to the UK where the people who live in said territory have repeatedly said in referendums that they want to remain in the UK.
Spain has shown a refusal to accept the will of the people of Gibraltar.
Especially given how the return of the Chagos Islands, regardless of other factors, did show a capitulation to the UN’s hypocrisy on colonialism (the UN doesn’t care if a non-Western country did it), the UK cannot afford to even slightly reduce the sovereignty it has in territories like Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands.
u/mancunian101 explained it well. “I agree that the Spanish don’t seem to be being unreasonable, I guess it’s just whether things start to expand, just an extra couple of border agents, can he have a couple of patrol boats in the harbour etc etc.”