How awful! I takes weeks to vet daycare centers and can take months to secure a spot for a child!
JauntyLurker on
>It was sent on a Thursday, giving staff notice of two working days.
This is seriously messed up. All these companies trying real hard to lose their skilled workers.
FallenKnightGX on
Dell is absolutely the type of company that would use this as cover for lay offs.
Jendosh on
How were people working and watching their kids at the same time. We did that during covid and our kids definitely weren’t getting the right level of attention. I work from home full time and couldn’t imagine it.
Interesting_Fly_769 on
Fuck Michael Dell.
itsjustaride24 on
What is it with tech firms and not understanding human beings?
Should bring the kids with them for a few weeks. When management bitches tell them you would have normally made another arrangements, but nothing was available on such short notice.
VisceralMonkey on
Company has gone to shit in the last 6 months and they give ZERO fucks.
Im_just_a_berry on
Childcare is freaking expensive. It’s one of the main reasons parents love WFH. Companies don’t offer childcare benefits and it takes up a chunk of their paycheck, plus gas money to drive to the office and then, pick your kids up after work. Sometimes, you gotta find daycare for your pets, too. WFH saves everyone so much money.
NebulousNitrate on
These companies know they will lose a significant number of top talent with these requests. When a company does something like this so swiftly, it may be a sign that they are looking at their financials and see red, and this is just an indirect way of doing layoffs without having to pay severance.
DOWNV0TET0OBLIVI0N on
Boycott Dell! Boycott RTO companies as much as possible. Vote with your wallet.
bb0110 on
So I understand wanting to work from home, and wanting more warning, but if you are truly working from home shouldn’t your child already have childcare established either with someone watching them or them at a daycare?
Anyone with a kid knows having your younger than school aged child at home is a full time job unto itself, so how exactly are they working consistently when they are supposed to be if their kid is home? If anything this complaint just reinforces the companies decision to bring people back to work.
koalathunder on
ok but they are not supposed to be taking care of their children during work time?
TheKage on
My friend has partially subsidized child care available in her office building. Every major corporation with lots of workers should offer this if they want people in the office and focused on their work. No need to worry about getting to work late or leaving early due to pickup/dropoff times in a different location.
Thac0 on
Seems like a “quiet layoff” the employees that do go back should “quiet quit”
edgelordjones on
I would LOVE to see that “data”that“shows that sales teams are more productive when onsite.”
SweaterGoats on
Before covid I interviewed with Dell and they only required a couple days in office. So annoying that they would change now.
Joaaayknows on
Hi. I happen to be in the know for this.
Dell had layoffs announced in early August. ~12,000 employees.
Except they didn’t drop the axe all at once. They asked VPs to do it by their org, on their time.
Some did it right away, some did it in September, and it seems like the sales VP is deciding to do it this way to perhaps save some extra $$ in severance.
This was not all of Dell, and this is definitely a pseudo-layoff by a VP for their org.
BenchOk2878 on
They know what they are doing. They are no fools.
If you work for Dell I recommend you to comply and go to the office, at least “in the flesh”.
DaemonCRO on
All of these forceful RTOs are simply layoffs. Once enough people have left, companies will be like “oh ok, we heard you, maybe have some days WFH”. But the laid off people will remain laid off and the profit margins will soar. Stonks go up. Management gets big payoffs.
illjustputthisthere on
Let me flip this the other way. How was anyone getting work done with a daycare aged child. Even those that I know who split duty between parents still end up with grandparents being the bulk of the care. We all know from COVID trying to take care of a child and work was difficult. If you pulled your kids from daycare to double dip then I’m not sure why dell is the evil empire here.
eri- on
Great time to short some dell shares
garibaldiknows on
How were they “working from home” without child care? You all realize you can’t take care of a kid and work full time right?
RI_MKE on
The tech industry really is trying to force me to become a luddite, between the rise of the technocrats and their interference in democracy, their disposable product model of business, and their abhorrent treatment of their people I honestly see no upside to tech anymore.
almo2001 on
I am reminded of Steinbeck’s The Pearl.
When they all demand RTO, none of us has any power to stop it.
regretretro on
This is where the power of numbers would be effective. Just say no. The problem is that a lot of people would have to be on the same wavelength.
alcohall183 on
Dear persons who were promised WFH and then had RTO sprung on them. Make them fire you! They want you to quit! they don’t want to lay you off-that would be bad for the stock market and it would be bad for their unemployment insurance payments. They want you to quit so they don’t have to pay either severance or unemployment and to also make sure that their stock doesn’t take a hit. They want it all. Don’t let them have it.
kooknboo on
LMFTFY… left parents scrambling because they could no longer babysit on their employer’s dime.
Source – 20 year WFH’er. I know the game.
Source2 – I listen to my dummie scrummie master putz around with his 3 kids (under 3yo) and his 2 dogs. Every day. If I’m not listening to one of his kids cry, I’m listening to him tell us he’s so lucky he doesn’t need to pay for childcare.
Source3 – my dummie scrummie master works a solid 12 per day. 5 minutes for his employer and 11:55 wrangling his kids.
beeker888 on
I’m sorry you can’t work from home efficiently while watching kids who should be in daycare. I am hybrid and also have a 2 year old. No way I could work from home and watch him at the same time and expect to get much done unless I just let him watch TV all day
Axentor on
Can we start calling these what they are? Layoffs.
TacoTitos on
It’s basically impossible to care of little ones and perform a demanding job at the same time. To even suggest that it’s possible diminishes how hard good parenting really is and is borderline negligent.
GunAndAGrin on
Didnt even attempt to sunset WFH, hahaha. Probably thought it was easy to immediately make significant adjustments to ones work-life balance. After all, their exec assistants get that kinda thing done for them all the time!! Dont you guys have the aides and funds to take care of that for you?!?!
Just giant pieces of shit.
Taminella_Grinderfal on
Ok so Dell is certainly shitty, not only for the two days notice but prior to that: In February, the company told all US employees to choose between hybrid or remote work, with the caveat that remote workers wouldn’t be eligible for promotions or role changes. So if you are the most productive person ever but you work from home, you’re screwed out of opportunities. Did they ever consider that detail would lead folks to do “bare minimum” because effort would not be rewarded?
If there are people they believe are taking advantage, there are easy ways to address that through monitoring and performance metrics. But I do question people “freaking out about childcare” because daycares and such are full. Working from home still means that time is for work, not “chase after my toddler while on a conference call”.
Humans_Suck- on
Shouldn’t dell have to pay for that?
Perudur1984 on
Constructive dismissal for many….
DoTheRustle on
Got hit with this situation at my and my wife’s employers. Our child is too young for daycare and family are not available to us, so we have to spend about a quarter of our household income on a part time nanny. Seriously, fuck employers that do this.
OpossomMyPossom on
I remember 2 years ago i read so many comments on Reddit saying a switch in careers to tech was the obvious move. Job security, good pay and benefits, and opportunity. It honestly was sound advice at the time, it’s just weird how much they must have over-hired the past few years to be pulling moves like this. I’m not even someone who sees layoffs as evil, it kind of just is what it is, but damn they’re doing people dirty. Definitely hard to ignore as someone about to re-enter to job hunt.
crazykid01 on
i love how the article says “they saw reduced productivity” but then go on to say there has been no productivity lost during this….. Someone is making up numbers again
ReallyFineWhine on
Betcha that somewhere on their website it claims that they value their employees, treat them like family, and strive for a work/life balance.
supershinythings on
A friend of mine was recently laid off from Dell. Fortunately she got a nice package. Now she gets to watch all her remaining coworkers go through this next round of garbage.
Consistent-Sea-410 on
There are some who aren’t in this position who probably don’t see the big deal.
You’ll all presumably have noticed the price increase of… well, nearly everything for the last half decade or more? Well, I don’t know about your country, but where I am wages have remained relatively stagnant. Minor payrises that don’t match inflation, at best.
Well, WFH offsets that pain a little. Especially when layoffs have been normalised to a disgusting level and you don’t want to be seen to aggressively pursue wage hikes, lest you show up on the radar. The ability to cutback and save on travel costs and childcare have been a lifeline.
There are talented tech people in my team who have worked hybrid or remote for longer than they ever worked in the office full time. Some never worked in office full time ever. Due to their ages (20’s) they’re not the highest paid staff; RTO orders can push them debt, their weekly budget can’t cope.
The tolerance for all this is dependent on circumstances and location – someone with adult kids in upper management isn’t as impacted as a middle management family with kids, who are impacted differently to young professionals.
But the same companies who limited pay rises and now want people back in office for no measurably good reason aren’t exactly compensating their employees for the additional cost they’re pushing onto them… and that’s before we discuss the quality of life downgrade.
They could easily compromise too – office days could be shortened to avoid rush hour and to give greater flexibility. Appropriately planned hybrid working to maximise the value both can bring. Quality of life incentives including childcare provisions or travel reimbursements. Anything really. But that’s not what this is about. This is about fluffing shareholders.
tosil on
So many redditors without kids or had childcare experience/responsibilities… (specifically in the American context)
43 Comments
How awful! I takes weeks to vet daycare centers and can take months to secure a spot for a child!
>It was sent on a Thursday, giving staff notice of two working days.
This is seriously messed up. All these companies trying real hard to lose their skilled workers.
Dell is absolutely the type of company that would use this as cover for lay offs.
How were people working and watching their kids at the same time. We did that during covid and our kids definitely weren’t getting the right level of attention. I work from home full time and couldn’t imagine it.
Fuck Michael Dell.
What is it with tech firms and not understanding human beings?
Similar article without the paywall: https://nypost.com/2024/10/09/business/dell-staffers-forced-to-return-to-office-on-short-notice-report/
Should bring the kids with them for a few weeks. When management bitches tell them you would have normally made another arrangements, but nothing was available on such short notice.
Company has gone to shit in the last 6 months and they give ZERO fucks.
Childcare is freaking expensive. It’s one of the main reasons parents love WFH. Companies don’t offer childcare benefits and it takes up a chunk of their paycheck, plus gas money to drive to the office and then, pick your kids up after work. Sometimes, you gotta find daycare for your pets, too. WFH saves everyone so much money.
These companies know they will lose a significant number of top talent with these requests. When a company does something like this so swiftly, it may be a sign that they are looking at their financials and see red, and this is just an indirect way of doing layoffs without having to pay severance.
Boycott Dell! Boycott RTO companies as much as possible. Vote with your wallet.
So I understand wanting to work from home, and wanting more warning, but if you are truly working from home shouldn’t your child already have childcare established either with someone watching them or them at a daycare?
Anyone with a kid knows having your younger than school aged child at home is a full time job unto itself, so how exactly are they working consistently when they are supposed to be if their kid is home? If anything this complaint just reinforces the companies decision to bring people back to work.
ok but they are not supposed to be taking care of their children during work time?
My friend has partially subsidized child care available in her office building. Every major corporation with lots of workers should offer this if they want people in the office and focused on their work. No need to worry about getting to work late or leaving early due to pickup/dropoff times in a different location.
Seems like a “quiet layoff” the employees that do go back should “quiet quit”
I would LOVE to see that “data”that“shows that sales teams are more productive when onsite.”
Before covid I interviewed with Dell and they only required a couple days in office. So annoying that they would change now.
Hi. I happen to be in the know for this.
Dell had layoffs announced in early August. ~12,000 employees.
Except they didn’t drop the axe all at once. They asked VPs to do it by their org, on their time.
Some did it right away, some did it in September, and it seems like the sales VP is deciding to do it this way to perhaps save some extra $$ in severance.
This was not all of Dell, and this is definitely a pseudo-layoff by a VP for their org.
They know what they are doing. They are no fools.
If you work for Dell I recommend you to comply and go to the office, at least “in the flesh”.
All of these forceful RTOs are simply layoffs. Once enough people have left, companies will be like “oh ok, we heard you, maybe have some days WFH”. But the laid off people will remain laid off and the profit margins will soar. Stonks go up. Management gets big payoffs.
Let me flip this the other way. How was anyone getting work done with a daycare aged child. Even those that I know who split duty between parents still end up with grandparents being the bulk of the care. We all know from COVID trying to take care of a child and work was difficult. If you pulled your kids from daycare to double dip then I’m not sure why dell is the evil empire here.
Great time to short some dell shares
How were they “working from home” without child care? You all realize you can’t take care of a kid and work full time right?
The tech industry really is trying to force me to become a luddite, between the rise of the technocrats and their interference in democracy, their disposable product model of business, and their abhorrent treatment of their people I honestly see no upside to tech anymore.
I am reminded of Steinbeck’s The Pearl.
When they all demand RTO, none of us has any power to stop it.
This is where the power of numbers would be effective. Just say no. The problem is that a lot of people would have to be on the same wavelength.
Dear persons who were promised WFH and then had RTO sprung on them. Make them fire you! They want you to quit! they don’t want to lay you off-that would be bad for the stock market and it would be bad for their unemployment insurance payments. They want you to quit so they don’t have to pay either severance or unemployment and to also make sure that their stock doesn’t take a hit. They want it all. Don’t let them have it.
LMFTFY… left parents scrambling because they could no longer babysit on their employer’s dime.
Source – 20 year WFH’er. I know the game.
Source2 – I listen to my dummie scrummie master putz around with his 3 kids (under 3yo) and his 2 dogs. Every day. If I’m not listening to one of his kids cry, I’m listening to him tell us he’s so lucky he doesn’t need to pay for childcare.
Source3 – my dummie scrummie master works a solid 12 per day. 5 minutes for his employer and 11:55 wrangling his kids.
I’m sorry you can’t work from home efficiently while watching kids who should be in daycare. I am hybrid and also have a 2 year old. No way I could work from home and watch him at the same time and expect to get much done unless I just let him watch TV all day
Can we start calling these what they are? Layoffs.
It’s basically impossible to care of little ones and perform a demanding job at the same time. To even suggest that it’s possible diminishes how hard good parenting really is and is borderline negligent.
Didnt even attempt to sunset WFH, hahaha. Probably thought it was easy to immediately make significant adjustments to ones work-life balance. After all, their exec assistants get that kinda thing done for them all the time!! Dont you guys have the aides and funds to take care of that for you?!?!
Just giant pieces of shit.
Ok so Dell is certainly shitty, not only for the two days notice but prior to that: In February, the company told all US employees to choose between hybrid or remote work, with the caveat that remote workers wouldn’t be eligible for promotions or role changes. So if you are the most productive person ever but you work from home, you’re screwed out of opportunities. Did they ever consider that detail would lead folks to do “bare minimum” because effort would not be rewarded?
If there are people they believe are taking advantage, there are easy ways to address that through monitoring and performance metrics. But I do question people “freaking out about childcare” because daycares and such are full. Working from home still means that time is for work, not “chase after my toddler while on a conference call”.
Shouldn’t dell have to pay for that?
Constructive dismissal for many….
Got hit with this situation at my and my wife’s employers. Our child is too young for daycare and family are not available to us, so we have to spend about a quarter of our household income on a part time nanny. Seriously, fuck employers that do this.
I remember 2 years ago i read so many comments on Reddit saying a switch in careers to tech was the obvious move. Job security, good pay and benefits, and opportunity. It honestly was sound advice at the time, it’s just weird how much they must have over-hired the past few years to be pulling moves like this. I’m not even someone who sees layoffs as evil, it kind of just is what it is, but damn they’re doing people dirty. Definitely hard to ignore as someone about to re-enter to job hunt.
i love how the article says “they saw reduced productivity” but then go on to say there has been no productivity lost during this….. Someone is making up numbers again
Betcha that somewhere on their website it claims that they value their employees, treat them like family, and strive for a work/life balance.
A friend of mine was recently laid off from Dell. Fortunately she got a nice package. Now she gets to watch all her remaining coworkers go through this next round of garbage.
There are some who aren’t in this position who probably don’t see the big deal.
You’ll all presumably have noticed the price increase of… well, nearly everything for the last half decade or more? Well, I don’t know about your country, but where I am wages have remained relatively stagnant. Minor payrises that don’t match inflation, at best.
Well, WFH offsets that pain a little. Especially when layoffs have been normalised to a disgusting level and you don’t want to be seen to aggressively pursue wage hikes, lest you show up on the radar. The ability to cutback and save on travel costs and childcare have been a lifeline.
There are talented tech people in my team who have worked hybrid or remote for longer than they ever worked in the office full time. Some never worked in office full time ever. Due to their ages (20’s) they’re not the highest paid staff; RTO orders can push them debt, their weekly budget can’t cope.
The tolerance for all this is dependent on circumstances and location – someone with adult kids in upper management isn’t as impacted as a middle management family with kids, who are impacted differently to young professionals.
But the same companies who limited pay rises and now want people back in office for no measurably good reason aren’t exactly compensating their employees for the additional cost they’re pushing onto them… and that’s before we discuss the quality of life downgrade.
They could easily compromise too – office days could be shortened to avoid rush hour and to give greater flexibility. Appropriately planned hybrid working to maximise the value both can bring. Quality of life incentives including childcare provisions or travel reimbursements. Anything really. But that’s not what this is about. This is about fluffing shareholders.
So many redditors without kids or had childcare experience/responsibilities… (specifically in the American context)