Terrible messaging for an actually positive measure. It’s like Labour are determined to drop every possible ball.
denyer-no1-fan on
I can’t read the article and the archive link appears to be broken. But this is a good policy motivated by a weird premise. It’s not engaging with the real reason behind decriminalizing it and just stoke up culture wars.
pipe-to-pipebushman on
Good. The TV licence should be a matter of contract law, like every other entertainment service.
ObviouslyTriggered on
Did Labour asked ChatGPT to come up with a list of policies that would piss off as much of the electorate as possible?
LifeMasterpiece6475 on
With today’s technology, in fact technology that’s been about for over a decade. They could easily make this a subscription service.
That includes the iPlayer, try using Netflix etc without a password and you won’t get very far. The BBC puts out free to air and then prosecutes you for looking at it. there are channels on Freeview the UK digital system that are already behind a paywall.
That way if you want their content you pay for it if you don’t you don’t. The government could bake in a rule for national important items to not be behind the pay wall on all channels.
Things like coronations, royal funerals, remembrance Day etc
Solid-Education5735 on
As we know laws are only allowed to disproportionately affect men
milkyteapls on
TV licensing needs a massive overhaul.
I don’t pay for it, but I’m apparently supposed to if I watch a foreign service online… That’s absurd overreach
CasualSmurf on
I was surprised people were still being prosecuted. For almost 10 years, I’ve been getting letters about a “final warning” or that a case has been opened. Not once in all that time has anyone knocked at my door about the TV licence.
boingwater on
I wonder how much tax payer money is wasted on the myriad of letters that are sent out every few weeks, claiming “Investigation Opened!”, and the people sent out to harass people on the door step.
2ABB on
It’s a good move for the wrong reasons.
I hope they find a way to fix its funding, I do enjoy being able to watch some shows/news/sport without needing an account or having to endure adverts.
Low_Acanthisitta4445 on
We need to decriminalize murder as murder prosecutions disproportionately affect men.
lastaccountgotlocked on
Nobody in the PLP has said it’s because it disproportionately effects women. The headline appears to be based on a single quote from Cherie Blair:
>”When you think that a third of all female convictions are for not paying their TV licence … It’s absurd.”
Which is actually quite a startling stat and should be interrogated.
But this headline is simply tabloid bullshit.
newnortherner21 on
Sending people to prison for non-payment is imprisonment for debt under another name. Better to have a non-custodial option.
OpticalData on
>A senior government source said: “The administrative burden of policing non-payment of the licence fee should not be falling on the taxpayer. It should be carved out. It’s not worth the hassle it creates.”
This is the only actual quote from a Government source in the article. The claims this is due to concerns about disproportionate affects on women are completely unsourced and likely just spin from The Times.
Snaidheadair on
Hopefully means they’ll stop sending their multitude of daft ‘investigation’ letters out, like a weirdo ex that can’t get the hint. Might save them some money as well.
Stainless-S-Rat on
Iplayer should have gone subscription based years ago.
I stopped watching BBC years ago. I found they no longer cater to my particular demographic.
I’m not a fan of science fiction. I have found that the BBC has often been disappointing in their quite frankly lacklustre attempts.
This is the channel where traditionally, their sci-fi was much see tv and discussed in parliament.
bvimo on
I have one TV which I use about one hour a day. I do have three radios on 09 – 20 everyday tuned to BBC R6 DAB, sometimes 5 Live, R4 or R3.
Along the road an elderly couple have two TV’s on 08 – 22 everyday, no radio.
Should we pay by consumption, thus I’d pay much less for TV than the neighbours yet more for radio. I’d like a third party to decide the BBC (and others) costs and then tell our government, I also want this third party to able to ask questions of the BBC – why do you do this etc and expect answers. BBC’s money would come from tax payers.
The broadcasting infrastructure needs to be paid for. BBC offers a huge amount of excellent media.
Appropriate-Divide64 on
I mean… That seems like a really odd reason. I’m all for it, but I didn’t expect that to be the reason.
Square-Employee5539 on
So only honest suckers will pay the fee. Ridiculous system
Its_Dakier on
Don’t pay for it.
If the BBC claims you have to pay it, tell them you don’t.
Do not let anyone inside your property without a warrant.
If enough people don’t pay for it, it’ll cease to eventually exist or be paid for by the treasury and roped into everyone else’s tax anyway, which would still be a much better system.
Night-Springs54 on
Anyone got a copy of the article or link to another site?
Surely they’ve not come out saying this the way the headline phrases it. If true labour is now (and maybe already) sexist, I’d like to think leaders don’t just see people for their sex but maybe they do.
RedditSwitcherooney on
Not sure why people are angry about the wording here. The fact of the matter is that Capita send predominantly men to peoples’ homes and in the case where the resident is elderly or female, it’s very easy for them to intimidate them into letting them in. Additionally plenty of single mothers don’t have a pot to piss in anyway, so when the scumbags manage to get in and conjure up a prosecution they face a massive fine. It does disproportionately affect women hence the need for the law change, but it’s a law that will benefit everyone.
I’d understand outrage if they said “it’s only decriminalised for women, men can still be prosecuted” but that isn’t the case. Let good things happen without moaning about it ffs.
hue-166-mount on
Let me guess: all the voices who be happy to see the BBC defunded and essentially abolished are also keen on nationalising the railways, water supply and would never dream that the health service not be nationally run. And they haven’t noticed or thought forward what the media landscape looks like in 20 years once the BBC went commercial “it’s so shit since it was privatised, why couldn’t it be nationalised like we did the railways”
Ruhail_56 on
Fuck the BBC, this isn’t the 50s anymore. You do not have the right to claim you have access to all Live broadcasts.
dmmeyourfloof on
Bit hard to comment when the article is locked behind a paywall.
Tories started using bots now?
sabhall12 on
If that’s what they need to say to stop the prosecutions, I don’t mind…
YaGanache1248 on
Is this further government dismantling of the BBC? Why will people pay the licence fee if there’s no consequences to do so?
Although, we should bin the tv licence fee and fund the BBC via a WiFi charge. Due to billing businesses, it would yield greater BBC funding (which would allow higher standards and better programming), free access for low income families and hopefully some left over for the treasury
Blooblack on
Why did I read this as “Labour Party to end prostitution”?
macandcheesefan45 on
YES!!!! This is a move I could get behind. I recall growing up in 1980s Scotland poor where single mothers were going to prison for non payment of license fees whilst the BBC put the likes of magnenta de vine in expensive rehab for heroin addictikn. and also covered up noncing.
TeaBoy24 on
Any other source than a right wing media during a bombardment of stretched stories that aren’t that bad in reality?
Salt-Plankton436 on
Ok, will they be stopping murder prosecutions because they disproportionately “affect” men? Or will they have the exact opposite rhetoric?
BasisOk4268 on
This on top of closing women’s prisons does not seem very inclusive and equitable.
marmadukejinks99 on
That’s a pretty stupid idea. Either collect the money or give up collecting.
GrainsofArcadia on
I haven’t paid the licence fee for the better part of a decade now. It’s an absolute con.
I could understand paying the licence fee back in the day when the infrastructure for television was in its infancy, but I don’t think that’s a valid argument today.
I’ve seen plenty of people online say that we should all pay the licence fee because they like the BBC. In my opinion, if they like the BBC so much, they should continue to pay for it through a subscription service, but I can’t understand for the life in me why people that don’t like the BBC or enjoy its content should have to have a licence to watch a YouTube livestream or something. That’s utter bollocks as far as I’m concerned.
Nervous-Peanut-5802 on
Ministers are preparing to decriminalise non-payment of the BBC TV licence fee amid concern at the cost to the state of prosecution and claims that the offence unfairly penalises women. Lisa Nandy, the culture secretary, and Shabana Mahmood, the justice secretary, are understood to agree that failure to pay the licence should no longer be a criminal offence. They are concerned that women are being “disproportionately” targeted.
A change to the way that non-payment is enforced will be part of the negotiations between the government and the BBC in the forthcoming charter renewal discussions, which begin in January. A senior government source said: “The administrative burden of policing non-payment of the licence fee should not be falling on the taxpayer. It should be carved out. It’s not worth the hassle it creates.” Nearly 1,000 people are prosecuted every week for not paying their licence fee, which costs £169.50 a year, making it the most common crime in the country apart from motoring offences. Concerns have been raised about the disproportionate number of women being pursued through the legal system. They account for about 70 per cent of those fined. Lucy Frazer, the former Conservative culture secretary, said last year that prosecuting people for not paying the TV licence fee is “morally indefensible in modern times”, while Cherie Blair also criticised the situation. The human rights lawyer told The Times Crime and Justice Commission: “When you think that a third of all female convictions are for not paying their TV licence … It’s absurd. “The cost of those women’s places in prison, the impact on their children, the fact that they’ll probably lose their accommodation — I mean, what is the sense in that? There is absolutely no sense in it whatsoever … I think, really, the solution is not to send so many women to prison. And it’s honestly as simple as that.”
In response to concerns about the impact on women, a senior BBC figure has attempted to reassure the government that the corporation is addressing the problem and claims to have introduced an amnesty on the prosecution of vulnerable women. However, this claim has been denied by the BBC. An insider said there had been a “conscious effort” to reduce the number of prosecutions, but warned the broadcaster would continue to target persistent evaders. “We are busy helping people to avoid prosecution, but prosecutions will still happen, the source said. “Without an enforcement mechanism, there is no system.”
The BBC’s options Decriminalisation of the licence fee is expected to be included in a wider review of the BBC’s funding model. Nandy is understood to be concerned that the current funding model is unsustainable, after it was revealed that half a million households cancelled their licence last year as the corporation struggled to connect with younger audiences drifting away to competitors such as Netflix and YouTube. The government is looking for viable options to replace the licence. These include subscriptions for “premium content”, more commercialisation, or covering the cost out of general taxation. Nandy has previously suggested that the corporation should be “mutualised”, which would give direct ownership and control to licence fee-payers. A mutual company is one owned by all of its members, not by a board or shareholders. Under this model, the licence fee would become a members’ fee. The licence fee pays for BBC services including TV, radio, the website, podcasts, iPlayer and apps. Its existence is guaranteed until at least December 31, 2027, by the corporation’s royal charter, which sets out its funding and purpose. No evidence of bias Ministry of Justice figures show that there were 47,622 prosecutions and 44,106 convictions for failing to pay for a television licence in the year to the end of June 2022. Nearly all cases are dealt with under the “single justice procedure”, which allows magistrates to decide minor criminal cases without a court hearing. If those accused fail to respond to a letter saying they have been charged, the court rubber-stamps the guilty verdict and issues a fine of up to £1,000. Anyone who refuses to pay the fine faces the threat of jail.
In May last year, the BBC announced increased support for people in “real financial difficulty” to pay for their licence. This followed the BBC’s gender disparity review, which was set up to understand why so many of those prosecuted are women. The review, overseen by the independent adviser Baroness Young of Hornsey, found that the gap is largely caused by societal factors and there is no evidence that TV Licensing, the organisation that collects the fee, deliberately discriminates against any specific group. The factors cited in the report were the greater financial hardship faced by women; women being more likely to be at home and organising domestic bills; and women making up more than 60 per cent of single-adult households.
In 2021, the government decided not to go ahead with decriminalisation proposals, but said they would “remain under active consideration”. A TV Licensing spokesman said: “We have a duty to enforce the law when there is evidence that someone has avoided paying for a TV licence. “What we have done is made considerable efforts to help people get licensed and offer help and support. So, while we take appropriate action where necessary, we work hard to support those most in need, offering a number of concessions and payment plans to ensure people can obtain a licence in the way that suits them best. “Our focus on collecting the licence fee fairly and efficiently ensures that the overwhelming majority of households are correctly licensed.”
Klive5ive555 on
This is like a parody of bad journalism.
This is this sub now? Some hack takes 2 quotes years apart and troops it out as government policy AND reasoning, and then we recycle it and it give it clicks.
KeithBarrumsSP on
very nice. Now show me exactly where labour specified this reason.
37 Comments
Terrible messaging for an actually positive measure. It’s like Labour are determined to drop every possible ball.
I can’t read the article and the archive link appears to be broken. But this is a good policy motivated by a weird premise. It’s not engaging with the real reason behind decriminalizing it and just stoke up culture wars.
Good. The TV licence should be a matter of contract law, like every other entertainment service.
Did Labour asked ChatGPT to come up with a list of policies that would piss off as much of the electorate as possible?
With today’s technology, in fact technology that’s been about for over a decade. They could easily make this a subscription service.
That includes the iPlayer, try using Netflix etc without a password and you won’t get very far. The BBC puts out free to air and then prosecutes you for looking at it. there are channels on Freeview the UK digital system that are already behind a paywall.
That way if you want their content you pay for it if you don’t you don’t. The government could bake in a rule for national important items to not be behind the pay wall on all channels.
Things like coronations, royal funerals, remembrance Day etc
As we know laws are only allowed to disproportionately affect men
TV licensing needs a massive overhaul.
I don’t pay for it, but I’m apparently supposed to if I watch a foreign service online… That’s absurd overreach
I was surprised people were still being prosecuted. For almost 10 years, I’ve been getting letters about a “final warning” or that a case has been opened. Not once in all that time has anyone knocked at my door about the TV licence.
I wonder how much tax payer money is wasted on the myriad of letters that are sent out every few weeks, claiming “Investigation Opened!”, and the people sent out to harass people on the door step.
It’s a good move for the wrong reasons.
I hope they find a way to fix its funding, I do enjoy being able to watch some shows/news/sport without needing an account or having to endure adverts.
We need to decriminalize murder as murder prosecutions disproportionately affect men.
Nobody in the PLP has said it’s because it disproportionately effects women. The headline appears to be based on a single quote from Cherie Blair:
>”When you think that a third of all female convictions are for not paying their TV licence … It’s absurd.”
Which is actually quite a startling stat and should be interrogated.
But this headline is simply tabloid bullshit.
Sending people to prison for non-payment is imprisonment for debt under another name. Better to have a non-custodial option.
>A senior government source said: “The administrative burden of policing non-payment of the licence fee should not be falling on the taxpayer. It should be carved out. It’s not worth the hassle it creates.”
This is the only actual quote from a Government source in the article. The claims this is due to concerns about disproportionate affects on women are completely unsourced and likely just spin from The Times.
Hopefully means they’ll stop sending their multitude of daft ‘investigation’ letters out, like a weirdo ex that can’t get the hint. Might save them some money as well.
Iplayer should have gone subscription based years ago.
I stopped watching BBC years ago. I found they no longer cater to my particular demographic.
I’m not a fan of science fiction. I have found that the BBC has often been disappointing in their quite frankly lacklustre attempts.
This is the channel where traditionally, their sci-fi was much see tv and discussed in parliament.
I have one TV which I use about one hour a day. I do have three radios on 09 – 20 everyday tuned to BBC R6 DAB, sometimes 5 Live, R4 or R3.
Along the road an elderly couple have two TV’s on 08 – 22 everyday, no radio.
Should we pay by consumption, thus I’d pay much less for TV than the neighbours yet more for radio. I’d like a third party to decide the BBC (and others) costs and then tell our government, I also want this third party to able to ask questions of the BBC – why do you do this etc and expect answers. BBC’s money would come from tax payers.
The broadcasting infrastructure needs to be paid for. BBC offers a huge amount of excellent media.
I mean… That seems like a really odd reason. I’m all for it, but I didn’t expect that to be the reason.
So only honest suckers will pay the fee. Ridiculous system
Don’t pay for it.
If the BBC claims you have to pay it, tell them you don’t.
Do not let anyone inside your property without a warrant.
If enough people don’t pay for it, it’ll cease to eventually exist or be paid for by the treasury and roped into everyone else’s tax anyway, which would still be a much better system.
Anyone got a copy of the article or link to another site?
Surely they’ve not come out saying this the way the headline phrases it. If true labour is now (and maybe already) sexist, I’d like to think leaders don’t just see people for their sex but maybe they do.
Not sure why people are angry about the wording here. The fact of the matter is that Capita send predominantly men to peoples’ homes and in the case where the resident is elderly or female, it’s very easy for them to intimidate them into letting them in. Additionally plenty of single mothers don’t have a pot to piss in anyway, so when the scumbags manage to get in and conjure up a prosecution they face a massive fine. It does disproportionately affect women hence the need for the law change, but it’s a law that will benefit everyone.
I’d understand outrage if they said “it’s only decriminalised for women, men can still be prosecuted” but that isn’t the case. Let good things happen without moaning about it ffs.
Let me guess: all the voices who be happy to see the BBC defunded and essentially abolished are also keen on nationalising the railways, water supply and would never dream that the health service not be nationally run. And they haven’t noticed or thought forward what the media landscape looks like in 20 years once the BBC went commercial “it’s so shit since it was privatised, why couldn’t it be nationalised like we did the railways”
Fuck the BBC, this isn’t the 50s anymore. You do not have the right to claim you have access to all Live broadcasts.
Bit hard to comment when the article is locked behind a paywall.
Tories started using bots now?
If that’s what they need to say to stop the prosecutions, I don’t mind…
Is this further government dismantling of the BBC? Why will people pay the licence fee if there’s no consequences to do so?
Although, we should bin the tv licence fee and fund the BBC via a WiFi charge. Due to billing businesses, it would yield greater BBC funding (which would allow higher standards and better programming), free access for low income families and hopefully some left over for the treasury
Why did I read this as “Labour Party to end prostitution”?
YES!!!! This is a move I could get behind. I recall growing up in 1980s Scotland poor where single mothers were going to prison for non payment of license fees whilst the BBC put the likes of magnenta de vine in expensive rehab for heroin addictikn. and also covered up noncing.
Any other source than a right wing media during a bombardment of stretched stories that aren’t that bad in reality?
Ok, will they be stopping murder prosecutions because they disproportionately “affect” men? Or will they have the exact opposite rhetoric?
This on top of closing women’s prisons does not seem very inclusive and equitable.
That’s a pretty stupid idea. Either collect the money or give up collecting.
I haven’t paid the licence fee for the better part of a decade now. It’s an absolute con.
I could understand paying the licence fee back in the day when the infrastructure for television was in its infancy, but I don’t think that’s a valid argument today.
I’ve seen plenty of people online say that we should all pay the licence fee because they like the BBC. In my opinion, if they like the BBC so much, they should continue to pay for it through a subscription service, but I can’t understand for the life in me why people that don’t like the BBC or enjoy its content should have to have a licence to watch a YouTube livestream or something. That’s utter bollocks as far as I’m concerned.
Ministers are preparing to decriminalise non-payment of the BBC TV licence fee amid concern at the cost to the state of prosecution and claims that the offence unfairly penalises women. Lisa Nandy, the culture secretary, and Shabana Mahmood, the justice secretary, are understood to agree that failure to pay the licence should no longer be a criminal offence. They are concerned that women are being “disproportionately” targeted.
A change to the way that non-payment is enforced will be part of the negotiations between the government and the BBC in the forthcoming charter renewal discussions, which begin in January. A senior government source said: “The administrative burden of policing non-payment of the licence fee should not be falling on the taxpayer. It should be carved out. It’s not worth the hassle it creates.” Nearly 1,000 people are prosecuted every week for not paying their licence fee, which costs £169.50 a year, making it the most common crime in the country apart from motoring offences. Concerns have been raised about the disproportionate number of women being pursued through the legal system. They account for about 70 per cent of those fined. Lucy Frazer, the former Conservative culture secretary, said last year that prosecuting people for not paying the TV licence fee is “morally indefensible in modern times”, while Cherie Blair also criticised the situation. The human rights lawyer told The Times Crime and Justice Commission: “When you think that a third of all female convictions are for not paying their TV licence … It’s absurd. “The cost of those women’s places in prison, the impact on their children, the fact that they’ll probably lose their accommodation — I mean, what is the sense in that? There is absolutely no sense in it whatsoever … I think, really, the solution is not to send so many women to prison. And it’s honestly as simple as that.”
In response to concerns about the impact on women, a senior BBC figure has attempted to reassure the government that the corporation is addressing the problem and claims to have introduced an amnesty on the prosecution of vulnerable women. However, this claim has been denied by the BBC. An insider said there had been a “conscious effort” to reduce the number of prosecutions, but warned the broadcaster would continue to target persistent evaders. “We are busy helping people to avoid prosecution, but prosecutions will still happen, the source said. “Without an enforcement mechanism, there is no system.”
The BBC’s options Decriminalisation of the licence fee is expected to be included in a wider review of the BBC’s funding model. Nandy is understood to be concerned that the current funding model is unsustainable, after it was revealed that half a million households cancelled their licence last year as the corporation struggled to connect with younger audiences drifting away to competitors such as Netflix and YouTube. The government is looking for viable options to replace the licence. These include subscriptions for “premium content”, more commercialisation, or covering the cost out of general taxation. Nandy has previously suggested that the corporation should be “mutualised”, which would give direct ownership and control to licence fee-payers. A mutual company is one owned by all of its members, not by a board or shareholders. Under this model, the licence fee would become a members’ fee. The licence fee pays for BBC services including TV, radio, the website, podcasts, iPlayer and apps. Its existence is guaranteed until at least December 31, 2027, by the corporation’s royal charter, which sets out its funding and purpose. No evidence of bias Ministry of Justice figures show that there were 47,622 prosecutions and 44,106 convictions for failing to pay for a television licence in the year to the end of June 2022. Nearly all cases are dealt with under the “single justice procedure”, which allows magistrates to decide minor criminal cases without a court hearing. If those accused fail to respond to a letter saying they have been charged, the court rubber-stamps the guilty verdict and issues a fine of up to £1,000. Anyone who refuses to pay the fine faces the threat of jail.
In May last year, the BBC announced increased support for people in “real financial difficulty” to pay for their licence. This followed the BBC’s gender disparity review, which was set up to understand why so many of those prosecuted are women. The review, overseen by the independent adviser Baroness Young of Hornsey, found that the gap is largely caused by societal factors and there is no evidence that TV Licensing, the organisation that collects the fee, deliberately discriminates against any specific group. The factors cited in the report were the greater financial hardship faced by women; women being more likely to be at home and organising domestic bills; and women making up more than 60 per cent of single-adult households.
In 2021, the government decided not to go ahead with decriminalisation proposals, but said they would “remain under active consideration”. A TV Licensing spokesman said: “We have a duty to enforce the law when there is evidence that someone has avoided paying for a TV licence. “What we have done is made considerable efforts to help people get licensed and offer help and support. So, while we take appropriate action where necessary, we work hard to support those most in need, offering a number of concessions and payment plans to ensure people can obtain a licence in the way that suits them best. “Our focus on collecting the licence fee fairly and efficiently ensures that the overwhelming majority of households are correctly licensed.”
This is like a parody of bad journalism.
This is this sub now? Some hack takes 2 quotes years apart and troops it out as government policy AND reasoning, and then we recycle it and it give it clicks.
very nice. Now show me exactly where labour specified this reason.