West should set its own red lines, not just accept Putin’s, argues veteran diplomat
https://www.politico.eu/article/west-should-set-its-own-red-lines-not-just-accept-putin-wolfgang-ischinger-veteran-diplomat-munich-security-conference/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=Twitter
27 Comments
The west has similar red lines – no nukes stationed too close to the USA, no enemy countries at the border (See Cuban missile crisis).
Ukraine is not part of the “west” and the western elite barely care about the Ukrainian population
If you make threats you better be prepared to follow through. Russia’s “red lines” are just them trying to scare people and not something to mirror.
It’s pointless for the west to set a redline. Russia hasn’t “logic-ed” itself into this position, and it’s going to be an unpredictable end IMO. I could also see it happening in 2025.
Obama tried that in Syria. Putin went over them and Obama was left with a shocked pikachu face.
Most of these redlines are BS, especially Putin ones. If you gonna do something, you do it. You don’t talk.
Russia have crossed all possible red lines, don’t forget they have done countless war-crimes and is doing stuff like torturing kids to death. So setting up some reasonable red lines now that Russia haven’t already crossed is impossible
Attacking another sovereign nation IS the damn red line.
Red lines, as a concept, have been rendered meaningless. The West doesn’t need to waste time on meaningless posturing. That’s something weak countries do. Don’t bother announcing what your enemy can or can’t do, just announce what *you* will do and *fucking do it*!
or better yet follow by israels example
[I think Obama showed us](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avQKLRGRhPU) the western red lines shouldn’t be publicly broadcasted as it makes us look like damn fools when we don’t follow up.
From the article:
He sees India’s prime minister, Narendra Modi, as someone who can play a key role as an intermediary in a contact group, which would need to include the Europeans, the Chinese, the Saudis, Qataris and Turks.
Can anyone explain to me why these nations in particular would be placed in intermediary roles? I understand China is a massive force on the world stage in economic and military terms, but why is India, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey named as opposed to others?
There aren’t any red lines to set anymore.
Nah. Keep Russia guessing about what’s gonna happen.
The U.S. and Biden did set ‘red lines’. The problem is, we watched Pootin cross them without regard and never did a thing about it. Now, to be clear, I’m voting blue all the way down the ballot… but this was a failing of the current administration and a paper-tiger threat.
A red line is just permission to do anything you want before that line. The West should say “ we have a red line, you’ll know when you’ve crossed be because of the fireball”
I (random Redditor typing this from his couch) disagree. Russia setting and ultimately having to ignore its own red lines constantly is destroying their credibility. It costs the West nothing to not follow suit.
Wasn’t the red line “don’t invade a sovereign nation.”
Hard to put more lines down when you let murderous tyrants shit all over yours and you do nothing
The west already have set red lines? Don’t attack NATO and don’t nuke / destroy nuclear power plants close to NATO.
Who give a sh*t about Putin “redlines”? I dare him to invade us.
“Red lines” don’t work when everyone knows you’re bluffing. Most of us realize this once we hit our tweens, but evidently Western leaders never learned the lesson.
Nato should attack Russia after Ukraine softens it up. I’d roll the dice that Putin isn’t dumb enough to go nuclear. That’s just me, though. I’d like to lock Putin up with 10 really angry negro’s.
We already have. We told Russia if they use a tactical nuclear weapon, or cause a nuclear incident at one of the plants, we will be removing them from Ukraine.
but why? what happens if russia crosses it? are we leaving the descision to go to war to another country? we would we do that?
Putin and the rest of the world knows that there’s no red line the West will actually enforce beyond actually invading a NATO member state wrt Russia. Putin could nuke Kiev and we’d see a lot of posturing but zero military response.
No point in making a threat you won’t back up, and this guy doubtlessly knows it, but he wants to do some pointless posturing of his own.
West don’t need red lines because Putin can pretty much bully them and the west never responds. Even with red lines they won’t do anything
You don’t repeat a red line, just thereafter, if someone approaches,
You sound the alarm and aim when someone nears it.
You surrender the choice to fire, you already made it, its not yours anymore; if the line is crossed you *must* fire.
if you want the option to not fire, you don’t give a red line.
I’d prefer to not have red lines, but full consequences lined up for Russia. If they hit a hospital, here’s 100 long range missiles free of charge for Ukraine to use as they wish. See how long Russia keeps up at targeting hospitals.
Only a sith deals in absolutes.