It’s a bold take to say “we need a larger, better funded regulating body”, but that’s my take on this. Hunh.
Berchanhimez on
This is setting up to be another OceanGate scenario – “it’s too long and difficult to comply with regulatory requirements so we are simply going to ignore them”.
That’s clearly what they’re looking for. They aren’t complaining about the regulations being too stringent, or the number of people who have to review them being more stringent than needed… because they know those things won’t change even with more funding.
Those are their real complaints, however, even if they aren’t saying them. They are complaining about more funding because they know it’s the first step – it likely will never get through Congress (where both parties hate spending more money than necessary), and even if it does, it won’t fix anything because they’ll still need time to review the mountains of documents (without AI!) that have to be submitted.
And that will be the beginning of their argument as to why it should be abolished or they should be exempt from the regulations. Which will be the end of safe SpaceX Starship.
Furrealyo on
FAA already exposed as clowns by Boeing.
SpaceX just reinforcing the fact.
CloudWallace81 on
*Stockton Rush nods silently from the great beyond*
FetchTheCow on
It’s ironic Elon says we need to be a multi-planetary species while complaining about FAA fines for contaminating this one.
DCS_Sport on
People seem to be going from zero to 100 real quick on their conclusions. SpaceX is far from the first aerospace entity to criticize the snails pace that the FAA moves. In fact, industry leaders have been urging the FAA to receive a larger budget and to expand their regulatory footprint for decades to meet the exponential demand on a number of fronts.
The FAA is a crucial part of our national infrastructure, and in some ways, one of the few government agencies that works so well. We are experiencing the longest period of aviation safety ever, and much of that is due to the FAA’s methodical approach towards regulation. That doesn’t mean it can’t improve and shouldn’t improve. It’s a topic near and dear to my heart, as a professional aviator and former SpaceX employee.
SpaceX isn’t asking to be given carte blanche permission to do as they please, but they want to end the political gamesmanship that the FAA has been playing with them, as well as make some of the processes more efficient to fit their model of development and rapid iteration.
Thanks for attending my Ted Talk, but I hope it helps the conversation along…
nigpaw_rudy on
Aren’t Elon and republicans against “Better funded regulatory bodies”?
DexicJ on
Why does SpaceX get to rush the FAA and no one else does? Boeing tried this once and it led to a massive penalty.
Decronym on
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I’ve seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|——-|———|—|
|[BO](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo2953q “Last usage”)|Blue Origin (*Bezos Rocketry*)|
|CST|(Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules|
| |Central Standard Time (UTC-6)|
|[DoD](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo3azpk “Last usage”)|US Department of Defense|
|[ESA](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo1v6k0 “Last usage”)|European Space Agency|
|[F1](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo0niy9 “Last usage”)|Rocketdyne-developed rocket engine used for Saturn V|
| |SpaceX Falcon 1 (obsolete small-lift vehicle)|
|[FAA](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo584mx “Last usage”)|Federal Aviation Administration|
|[FCC](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo3o7ta “Last usage”)|Federal Communications Commission|
| |(Iron/steel) [Face-Centered Cubic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allotropes_of_iron) crystalline structure|
|[KSC](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo584mx “Last usage”)|Kennedy Space Center, Florida|
|[Roscosmos](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo1v6k0 “Last usage”)|[State Corporation for Space Activities, Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscosmos_State_Corporation)|
|[SLS](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo46ket “Last usage”)|Space Launch System heavy-lift|
**NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below.
Anyone in aviation can tell you the FAA is under staffed, over worked and out dated
masterprofligator on
It’s sad that this growing political spat could potentially set space exploration and the astronomic sciences back by a decade. I blame Musk for starting it but I’d really expect the current administration to stand above it all.
masterprofligator on
So the violation the FAA has cited them for is because in 2023 SpaceX moved their communications center from one room in the Kennedy Space Station to another without refiling paper work. However it sounds like SpaceX was in constant communication about their operation, including this fact, and when filing it’s paperwork for this particular Falcon 9 mission it asked the FAA for feedback if they missed anything. Sounds like it is the FAA’s fault for not bringing this up at the time, likely because they are overstaffed or focusing on things that aren’t part of their original regulatory mission. Very strange that if they had an issue with this they wouldn’t have brought it up when they saw it happen.
DQ11 on
Space X can run at 20 mph but everyone they have to check in with walks at 5 mph. That is essentially what is happening. They want to make progress faster, they have the ability and shouldn’t be held back by people who move slow. We need to let them work as fast as they can safely work and not hold them back “just because” As someone who works faster/more efficiently than people around me, I know what it feels like having other people hold you back from making progress faster. It’s frustrating.
cumtitsmcgoo on
In the communications plan complaint they said they sent the revision with the location change on June 16 for a June 18 launch. And the FAA “finally” began reviewing on June 17. And then notes that the FAA had stated June 1st as delivery deadline. Which they admit to not meeting by stating they sent the final plan on June 16.
I don’t see how this holds up?
cumtitsmcgoo on
Good. Elon is smug and thinks he’s above law and regulation. I hope they throw the book at him.
rruusu on
> “SpaceX is absolutely committed to safety in all operations.”
> “The 2022 injury rate at the company’s manufacturing-and-launch facility near Brownsville, Texas, was 4.8 injuries or illnesses per 100 workers – six times higher than the space-industry average of 0.8.”
One in 20 workers getting injured in just a single year is insane.
16 Comments
It’s a bold take to say “we need a larger, better funded regulating body”, but that’s my take on this. Hunh.
This is setting up to be another OceanGate scenario – “it’s too long and difficult to comply with regulatory requirements so we are simply going to ignore them”.
That’s clearly what they’re looking for. They aren’t complaining about the regulations being too stringent, or the number of people who have to review them being more stringent than needed… because they know those things won’t change even with more funding.
Those are their real complaints, however, even if they aren’t saying them. They are complaining about more funding because they know it’s the first step – it likely will never get through Congress (where both parties hate spending more money than necessary), and even if it does, it won’t fix anything because they’ll still need time to review the mountains of documents (without AI!) that have to be submitted.
And that will be the beginning of their argument as to why it should be abolished or they should be exempt from the regulations. Which will be the end of safe SpaceX Starship.
FAA already exposed as clowns by Boeing.
SpaceX just reinforcing the fact.
*Stockton Rush nods silently from the great beyond*
It’s ironic Elon says we need to be a multi-planetary species while complaining about FAA fines for contaminating this one.
People seem to be going from zero to 100 real quick on their conclusions. SpaceX is far from the first aerospace entity to criticize the snails pace that the FAA moves. In fact, industry leaders have been urging the FAA to receive a larger budget and to expand their regulatory footprint for decades to meet the exponential demand on a number of fronts.
The Air Traffic Controllers Association advocated for increased funding to help address the massive staffing shortage that they face (which one of the reasons why we see so many delayed and cancelled flights these days): https://www.natca.org/2024/03/05/natca-supports-fy24-appropriations-package-with-funding-for-faa/
The Airline Pilots Association has called for increased funding for the FAA to address how it approaches mental health in pilots (where pilots are incentivized to hide mental health issues due to the insanely long process to return to flying): https://www.alpa.org/news-and-events/news-room/2023-12-06-alpa-urges-changes-investment
The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association has asked for better funding and changes to 14 CFR 23 regulations to help make aircraft production and maintenence more affordable to help bring better accessibility to general aviation: https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/december/17/aircraft-certification-reform-continues-to-advance
The FAA is a crucial part of our national infrastructure, and in some ways, one of the few government agencies that works so well. We are experiencing the longest period of aviation safety ever, and much of that is due to the FAA’s methodical approach towards regulation. That doesn’t mean it can’t improve and shouldn’t improve. It’s a topic near and dear to my heart, as a professional aviator and former SpaceX employee.
SpaceX isn’t asking to be given carte blanche permission to do as they please, but they want to end the political gamesmanship that the FAA has been playing with them, as well as make some of the processes more efficient to fit their model of development and rapid iteration.
Thanks for attending my Ted Talk, but I hope it helps the conversation along…
Aren’t Elon and republicans against “Better funded regulatory bodies”?
Why does SpaceX get to rush the FAA and no one else does? Boeing tried this once and it led to a massive penalty.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I’ve seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|——-|———|—|
|[BO](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo2953q “Last usage”)|Blue Origin (*Bezos Rocketry*)|
|CST|(Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules|
| |Central Standard Time (UTC-6)|
|[DoD](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo3azpk “Last usage”)|US Department of Defense|
|[ESA](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo1v6k0 “Last usage”)|European Space Agency|
|[F1](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo0niy9 “Last usage”)|Rocketdyne-developed rocket engine used for Saturn V|
| |SpaceX Falcon 1 (obsolete small-lift vehicle)|
|[FAA](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo584mx “Last usage”)|Federal Aviation Administration|
|[FCC](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo3o7ta “Last usage”)|Federal Communications Commission|
| |(Iron/steel) [Face-Centered Cubic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allotropes_of_iron) crystalline structure|
|[KSC](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo584mx “Last usage”)|Kennedy Space Center, Florida|
|[Roscosmos](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo1v6k0 “Last usage”)|[State Corporation for Space Activities, Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscosmos_State_Corporation)|
|[SLS](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo46ket “Last usage”)|Space Launch System heavy-lift|
|Jargon|Definition|
|——-|———|—|
|[Starliner](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lnyi574 “Last usage”)|Boeing commercial crew capsule [CST-100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner)|
|[Starlink](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo46ket “Last usage”)|SpaceX’s world-wide satellite broadband constellation|
|[hydrolox](/r/Space/comments/1fkvgtx/stub/lo46ket “Last usage”)|Portmanteau: liquid hydrogen fuel, liquid oxygen oxidizer|
**NOTE**: Decronym for Reddit is no longer supported, and Decronym has moved to Lemmy; requests for support and new installations should be directed to the Contact address below.
—————-
^([Thread #10608 for this sub, first seen 20th Sep 2024, 02:22])
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Anyone in aviation can tell you the FAA is under staffed, over worked and out dated
It’s sad that this growing political spat could potentially set space exploration and the astronomic sciences back by a decade. I blame Musk for starting it but I’d really expect the current administration to stand above it all.
So the violation the FAA has cited them for is because in 2023 SpaceX moved their communications center from one room in the Kennedy Space Station to another without refiling paper work. However it sounds like SpaceX was in constant communication about their operation, including this fact, and when filing it’s paperwork for this particular Falcon 9 mission it asked the FAA for feedback if they missed anything. Sounds like it is the FAA’s fault for not bringing this up at the time, likely because they are overstaffed or focusing on things that aren’t part of their original regulatory mission. Very strange that if they had an issue with this they wouldn’t have brought it up when they saw it happen.
Space X can run at 20 mph but everyone they have to check in with walks at 5 mph. That is essentially what is happening. They want to make progress faster, they have the ability and shouldn’t be held back by people who move slow. We need to let them work as fast as they can safely work and not hold them back “just because” As someone who works faster/more efficiently than people around me, I know what it feels like having other people hold you back from making progress faster. It’s frustrating.
In the communications plan complaint they said they sent the revision with the location change on June 16 for a June 18 launch. And the FAA “finally” began reviewing on June 17. And then notes that the FAA had stated June 1st as delivery deadline. Which they admit to not meeting by stating they sent the final plan on June 16.
I don’t see how this holds up?
Good. Elon is smug and thinks he’s above law and regulation. I hope they throw the book at him.
> “SpaceX is absolutely committed to safety in all operations.”
Hmm.. About that: <https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/spacex-musk-safety/>
> “The 2022 injury rate at the company’s manufacturing-and-launch facility near Brownsville, Texas, was 4.8 injuries or illnesses per 100 workers – six times higher than the space-industry average of 0.8.”
One in 20 workers getting injured in just a single year is insane.