would NATO actually do something? honest question as a german
Tnargkiller on
> The [NATO-to-Russia] message is: that’s it. It’s over. You don’t have an empire any more. You don’t have a ‘near abroad’ or a ‘sphere of influence’.
I like the words here but I think post-US election is the time to have this conversation. The Trump-Vance contingent thinks NATO’s expansion is what led to this war, and if you begin the Ukraine induction talks too formally, too soon, it could lead them into a sense of vindication and drive higher turnout figures on election day. Let’s have this conversation in (at least) December.
Brytnshyne on
> If the briefings to the media were accurate, this was perhaps the moment of breakthrough, when the Americans and the British were about to announce that the poor Ukrainians would be able to defend themselves properly against Putin’s glide bombs. We would jointly lift our technological reserve and **allow them to use the weapons they already possessed – Storm Shadow and Scalp-EG, its French equivalent, and the American ATACMS systems – in the way they were supposed to work.**
>Now the US-UK talks have apparently ended in failure – at least for the present. What the hell are we supposed to tell the Ukrainians?
>**What more have these people got to do to show the rest of us their fighting spirit and their ability to win?**
>**Ukraine won’t lose but if it did, we would have the risk of escalation across the whole periphery of the former Soviet empire, including the border with Poland, wherever Putin thought that aggression would pay off.**
>We need to get serious and to get real, and the first step to sanity is to understand that **there is no honourable compromise to be made with Putin.**
I hope the NATO powers that be understand after Ukraine wins this war, we are all going to have to learn from them. They have displayed unbelievable resilience and honor despite Putin breaking every war rule in the book. They deserve NATO.
Aurondarklord on
I don’t see any scenario in which Ukraine is allowed to join NATO while the war is still ongoing, because that is, directly, WWIII. Article 5 would apply, NATO would be at war with Russia. And then the nukes fly and humanity dies.
Living_Truth_6398 on
Ukraine lost its sovereignty a long time ago back in 2014 and them joining NATO means nothing but a trapped market for American and possibly some major European arms manufacturers. This war was in Ukraine’s court and they chose war over peace inevitably losing its economic freedom to the west forever. Ukrainian support is just a blind hogwash sense of petty loyalty but has been quite the ever profitable business for the involved governments except for Putin of course, but even he has gained stronger allies in Beijing and Pyongyang.
StrivingToBeDecent on
Or at least send them even more weapons and supplies to expel Russia.
hypercomms2001 on
NOPE! It is the other way around… it is time to allow NATO to join Ukraine!
7 Comments
would NATO actually do something? honest question as a german
> The [NATO-to-Russia] message is: that’s it. It’s over. You don’t have an empire any more. You don’t have a ‘near abroad’ or a ‘sphere of influence’.
I like the words here but I think post-US election is the time to have this conversation. The Trump-Vance contingent thinks NATO’s expansion is what led to this war, and if you begin the Ukraine induction talks too formally, too soon, it could lead them into a sense of vindication and drive higher turnout figures on election day. Let’s have this conversation in (at least) December.
> If the briefings to the media were accurate, this was perhaps the moment of breakthrough, when the Americans and the British were about to announce that the poor Ukrainians would be able to defend themselves properly against Putin’s glide bombs. We would jointly lift our technological reserve and **allow them to use the weapons they already possessed – Storm Shadow and Scalp-EG, its French equivalent, and the American ATACMS systems – in the way they were supposed to work.**
>Now the US-UK talks have apparently ended in failure – at least for the present. What the hell are we supposed to tell the Ukrainians?
>**What more have these people got to do to show the rest of us their fighting spirit and their ability to win?**
>**Ukraine won’t lose but if it did, we would have the risk of escalation across the whole periphery of the former Soviet empire, including the border with Poland, wherever Putin thought that aggression would pay off.**
>We need to get serious and to get real, and the first step to sanity is to understand that **there is no honourable compromise to be made with Putin.**
I hope the NATO powers that be understand after Ukraine wins this war, we are all going to have to learn from them. They have displayed unbelievable resilience and honor despite Putin breaking every war rule in the book. They deserve NATO.
I don’t see any scenario in which Ukraine is allowed to join NATO while the war is still ongoing, because that is, directly, WWIII. Article 5 would apply, NATO would be at war with Russia. And then the nukes fly and humanity dies.
Ukraine lost its sovereignty a long time ago back in 2014 and them joining NATO means nothing but a trapped market for American and possibly some major European arms manufacturers. This war was in Ukraine’s court and they chose war over peace inevitably losing its economic freedom to the west forever. Ukrainian support is just a blind hogwash sense of petty loyalty but has been quite the ever profitable business for the involved governments except for Putin of course, but even he has gained stronger allies in Beijing and Pyongyang.
Or at least send them even more weapons and supplies to expel Russia.
NOPE! It is the other way around… it is time to allow NATO to join Ukraine!