I’m somewhat torn on this. I think there are many dangerous cyclists in London, but I think a lot of that is also a result of how poorly equipped for cycling our infrastructure is.
But, there are far more important things that need money right now, so assuming the infrastructure won’t change this is probably a good thing on balance.
MyCatIsAFknIdiot on
I think this is a good idea.
There is no reason to be a dangerous cyclist.
Jumping red lights, cycling on the pavement where there is a cycle lane, no lights, no helmet all deserve a penalty.
But, what happens if you don’t have a driving license?
And I’m an ardent cyclist who abhors bad cycling!!
BigSargeEnergy on
> Lord Hendy, a former Commissioner of Transport for London, said: “I was interested to hear some suggestions from the noble Lord, Lord Hogan-Howe, about licensing and adding cycling to driving licences, and particularly about maybe making cycling offences endorsable on driving licences for motor vehicles. We will certainly look at that,” the Evening Standard reported.
So are they proposing you need to get a driving license to cycle? The UK really is a meme country.
222nd on
Would that deter the occasional bicycle commuter who also has a car/van/motorcycle? Sure.
But the type of cyclist who rides everywhere, doesn’t require additional transport and uses public transport to go further afield – this really isn’t a deterrent. There’s nothing out there such a bicycle licence or registration.
> The idea of a registration system for bikes was dismissed as being “too complex and expensive to design and administer.”
Which then rolls back to on the spot fines, where you need more traffic police.
Build better cycling infrastructure or spend more on policing something which shouldn’t have to happen, which shouldn’t be a dangerous endeavour every time you use the road.
KateBlanche on
So the punishment for a cycling offence is something to do with driving a car. If you are entitled to drive a car. Which they assume everyone is. Got it.
ken-doh on
The one that really upsets me is the pelican crossing, when it’s a green man, pedestrians are on the crossing, and a cyclist barrels through on either side of the road, forcing pedestrians to stop.
It’s so fucking dangerous.
Also cyclists on phones, this needs to stop.
I would happily see these arseholes stopped and fined. I doubt they have a licence.
Similar_Zebra_4598 on
Basically unenforceable and would probably just serve to discourage cycling even more.
It’s also a very car centric debate to be having given the state of roads and people’s driving in general….
Vitalgori on
If you can’t get points for walking wrong, you shouldn’t be getting points for Cycling wrong.
Cycling is a lot closer to walking than to driving, so I don’t see why cycling and driving should be regulated the same.
TwiztedZero on
Biking unlicensed on a stolen bike – that’s a paddling’.
deanlr90 on
There are good cyclists and bad cyclists , there are good drivers and bad drivers , there are polite pedestrians and rude pedestrians , perhaps it’s just there are considerate people and inconsiderate people . Do new laws change things ?
kinobick on
I cycle everyday in London and I’m ok with this. If it stops people running red lights then it’s a good thing.
Happytallperson on
If and when driver caused death and injury falls to…say….a mere 5 times that caused by cycling then it might become worth diverting police resources to focus on cyclists.
Until then, we should probably be focusing on dangerous drivers.
JustinThyme9 on
what about teenagers and kids who are too young to even get a driving license? Are we really going to make it so kids have one less way to be active and get to school without being driven everywhere?
krose1980 on
What about dangerous pedestrians? I need o admit I see occassionally lunatics cyclists that makes me angry, but definately I encounted much more often lunatics pedestrians! I am cyclists in London, moslty on London Bridge – Old Street route, Bank and Moorgate area is full of suicide pedestrians stepping off kerb without looking around, crossimg road with their faces in phones etc etc…when I cross pedestrian crossing on red light, I am slow, probably from stopping first, I make sure noone is near or at least I do not force pedestrian to change their pace or be worried…pedestrians at the other hand don’t give a shite if I have to suddenly break or quick dodge side so I dont hit them risking I ll have car behind me,
Phainesthai on
Yes, I’m sure the average balaclava wearing scrote on an ebike has a driving licence to worry about.
TwiztedZero on
First you’ve got to outlaw the unlicensed use of angle grinders to steal bicycles with. Bring bike crime to zero. Then we’ll talk about licensing human being pilots to ride atop a bicycle with a frame upon two wheels. Remember, Little Bobby is only five years old at this point. And Shelly the girl next door is just turning 3 – what kind of licenses do you really need here? What are you afraid of? There are far too many laws upon this Earth planet. You’ve over regulated life on Earth, you realize.
SturdyPete on
Given how much dangerous shit drivers do with any apparent repercussions, I doubt this is really going to make a difference
Exospacefart on
Wonder if the extensive rule book we are building in the UK is just stealing our freedom. Cycling is the last branch of being a sailor or a cowboy going off with the idea of adventure with no ties to any organisation or bureaucracy. I liken it to having a space ship able to fly across space and time with only natural laws to manoeuver.
powysbiker on
They can’t even be bothered to catch people on illegal electric scooters and delivery drivers on electric motorcycles… how are they going find the resources to catch cyclists?
aztecfaces on
The article is very light on details. No quotes from the government, one speech in the Lords and a quote from a former politician. It’s just engagement bait for pro and anti cyclists to get het up about
bin-bobs on
Is the Cycling Proficiency Test a thing in schools still? Or has that been ditched a long time since from the curriculum yesteryear?
narodnick on
I cycle daily and the most dangerous bikes I see are the lime users. Ignore red lights, phone in one hand, using pavements etc
This points thing is a bit iffy but if it did happen it should apply to ebikes mainly. Adding any sort of device to a bike that powers you along on the road should be licensed and require one. Same with scooters.
Bit trickier now we have rental ebikes, but just put a motor cut out when it hits a certain speed? I’m not a mechanic or engineer so not sure if that’s a gross oversimplification.
That or you have to have a license to use one. If you don’t you can use a Santander basic.
trmetroidmaniac on
Bad cyclists get penalized against their driving license, which may stop them driving but won’t stop them cycling.
Am I missing something? This sounds awful. Something needs to be done about dangerous cyclists but this won’t do that.
WerewolfNo890 on
Genuinely curious, what about those of us that don’t have a driving licence?
>Lord Hogan-Howe sad
The quality of journalism these days. Does no one proof read the ChatGPT output anymore?
zenz3ro on
A better solution would be to make the roads prioritise us, and make them safer for us. “Dangerous” because we shouldn’t have to behave like those who travel encased in metal. Insane.
woody83060 on
Just be another one of those laws that never gets used.
GapAnxious on
LBC clickbait garbage and unenforcable on every level.
ionetic on
It’s a criminal conviction you’d have to mention in your job application, failing to do so could result in a summary dismissal if discovered later.
Casting_in_the_Void on
Are we that dangerous though? Other countries have far more cyclists and none of the measures mentioned here – their culture towards cycling is far more civilised.
I’m a life-long cyclist, 40 years+ biking. I’ve commuted, toured, raced, enjoyed Club socials and countless solo rides for training and fitness enjoying nature and my environment.
I’ve lived in several countries and experienced different attitudes towards cycling. The Dutch, Danish, Belgians have excellent cycling infrastructure and living and riding there has been a privilege.
The Spanish and Portuguese in my experience very tolerant towards cycling.
The UK? Hostile.
We are demonised and hated which means that the relative few who do behave badly are amplified and seen as examples of us all. We slow their all-important progress at higher speeds and therefore evil. Inhumane. Yet, I’ve had motor vehicles deliberately try to knock me off at speeds that could kill me, I’ve been sworn at from motorists passing on the opposite side of the road who just felt the need to vent their disgust to one of the ‘collective’ of cyclists. We face limb and even life-threatening behaviour from motorists every single week, if not day. But motorists deem us dangerous.
I am a paid up member of British Cycling with the associated insurances and legal representation. I wear a helmet at all times, I don’t run red lights and I’ll pull over to allow motor vehicles past if the road is narrow and I’m holding them up – as a motorist too, I’m aware and want to ensure we all make safe progress. Still, I’m demonised.
Cyclists do have a duty to be responsible and knowledgeable road users, of course. I’d like to see compulsory cycle training, the passing of the Highway Code Theory exam, the wearing of helmets and spot fines for breaking the law. I’d welcome some measure of 3rd party insurance too – as I have got – but that is obviously very sensitive and debatable given kids cycle too and we can’t be adding barriers to that.
I’m in the camp that registration is not worth the effort.
When I read complaints about cyclists running red lights etc it seems to be mostly in cities and towns. Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Ghent etc have infrastructure that largely solves that issue and makes motoring and cycling coexist far more amicably. The UK has a long way to go before it will match what they have, sadly.
There are some new cycle paths that are praise-worthy and the Leeds Elor system is one of those – as a lycra-clad competitive cyclist I enjoy leaving the road to join that when I’m in the area. Imagine that level of infrastructure everywhere? Everyone happy.
There is a serious discussion that needs to be had about cycling safety, rules of the road, sharing of the road network. I’d welcome more than mere lip-service, dribs and drabs with infrastructure and the demonising that exists – perhaps then a grown-up, more civilised series of solutions might follow.
Cynical_Classicist on
Well, if they’re cycling unsafely then fair enough that they face consequences.
grantus_maximus on
Every time someone looks into this sort of thing with regard to cyclists it quickly becomes apparent that it’s completely unworkable. 18 months later someone else has a try and the exact same thing happens.
inevitablelizard on
> He added: “I don’t think road traffic law has maintained the accountability of cyclists in a way that motor vehicles are regulated.”
Because motor vehicles are inherently much more dangerous. That’s why they’re regulated differently.
The whole idea of regulating cyclists like this is completely unworkable and ridiculous when you consider the actual threat from them is miniscule. The real solution is just build decent cycle infrastructure. *Real* cycle routes, not just some fucking paint on a road that’s not wide enough.
32 Comments
I’m somewhat torn on this. I think there are many dangerous cyclists in London, but I think a lot of that is also a result of how poorly equipped for cycling our infrastructure is.
But, there are far more important things that need money right now, so assuming the infrastructure won’t change this is probably a good thing on balance.
I think this is a good idea.
There is no reason to be a dangerous cyclist.
Jumping red lights, cycling on the pavement where there is a cycle lane, no lights, no helmet all deserve a penalty.
But, what happens if you don’t have a driving license?
And I’m an ardent cyclist who abhors bad cycling!!
> Lord Hendy, a former Commissioner of Transport for London, said: “I was interested to hear some suggestions from the noble Lord, Lord Hogan-Howe, about licensing and adding cycling to driving licences, and particularly about maybe making cycling offences endorsable on driving licences for motor vehicles. We will certainly look at that,” the Evening Standard reported.
So are they proposing you need to get a driving license to cycle? The UK really is a meme country.
Would that deter the occasional bicycle commuter who also has a car/van/motorcycle? Sure.
But the type of cyclist who rides everywhere, doesn’t require additional transport and uses public transport to go further afield – this really isn’t a deterrent. There’s nothing out there such a bicycle licence or registration.
> The idea of a registration system for bikes was dismissed as being “too complex and expensive to design and administer.”
Which then rolls back to on the spot fines, where you need more traffic police.
Build better cycling infrastructure or spend more on policing something which shouldn’t have to happen, which shouldn’t be a dangerous endeavour every time you use the road.
So the punishment for a cycling offence is something to do with driving a car. If you are entitled to drive a car. Which they assume everyone is. Got it.
The one that really upsets me is the pelican crossing, when it’s a green man, pedestrians are on the crossing, and a cyclist barrels through on either side of the road, forcing pedestrians to stop.
It’s so fucking dangerous.
Also cyclists on phones, this needs to stop.
I would happily see these arseholes stopped and fined. I doubt they have a licence.
Basically unenforceable and would probably just serve to discourage cycling even more.
It’s also a very car centric debate to be having given the state of roads and people’s driving in general….
If you can’t get points for walking wrong, you shouldn’t be getting points for Cycling wrong.
Cycling is a lot closer to walking than to driving, so I don’t see why cycling and driving should be regulated the same.
Biking unlicensed on a stolen bike – that’s a paddling’.
There are good cyclists and bad cyclists , there are good drivers and bad drivers , there are polite pedestrians and rude pedestrians , perhaps it’s just there are considerate people and inconsiderate people . Do new laws change things ?
I cycle everyday in London and I’m ok with this. If it stops people running red lights then it’s a good thing.
If and when driver caused death and injury falls to…say….a mere 5 times that caused by cycling then it might become worth diverting police resources to focus on cyclists.
Until then, we should probably be focusing on dangerous drivers.
what about teenagers and kids who are too young to even get a driving license? Are we really going to make it so kids have one less way to be active and get to school without being driven everywhere?
What about dangerous pedestrians? I need o admit I see occassionally lunatics cyclists that makes me angry, but definately I encounted much more often lunatics pedestrians! I am cyclists in London, moslty on London Bridge – Old Street route, Bank and Moorgate area is full of suicide pedestrians stepping off kerb without looking around, crossimg road with their faces in phones etc etc…when I cross pedestrian crossing on red light, I am slow, probably from stopping first, I make sure noone is near or at least I do not force pedestrian to change their pace or be worried…pedestrians at the other hand don’t give a shite if I have to suddenly break or quick dodge side so I dont hit them risking I ll have car behind me,
Yes, I’m sure the average balaclava wearing scrote on an ebike has a driving licence to worry about.
First you’ve got to outlaw the unlicensed use of angle grinders to steal bicycles with. Bring bike crime to zero. Then we’ll talk about licensing human being pilots to ride atop a bicycle with a frame upon two wheels. Remember, Little Bobby is only five years old at this point. And Shelly the girl next door is just turning 3 – what kind of licenses do you really need here? What are you afraid of? There are far too many laws upon this Earth planet. You’ve over regulated life on Earth, you realize.
Given how much dangerous shit drivers do with any apparent repercussions, I doubt this is really going to make a difference
Wonder if the extensive rule book we are building in the UK is just stealing our freedom. Cycling is the last branch of being a sailor or a cowboy going off with the idea of adventure with no ties to any organisation or bureaucracy. I liken it to having a space ship able to fly across space and time with only natural laws to manoeuver.
They can’t even be bothered to catch people on illegal electric scooters and delivery drivers on electric motorcycles… how are they going find the resources to catch cyclists?
The article is very light on details. No quotes from the government, one speech in the Lords and a quote from a former politician. It’s just engagement bait for pro and anti cyclists to get het up about
Is the Cycling Proficiency Test a thing in schools still? Or has that been ditched a long time since from the curriculum yesteryear?
I cycle daily and the most dangerous bikes I see are the lime users. Ignore red lights, phone in one hand, using pavements etc
This points thing is a bit iffy but if it did happen it should apply to ebikes mainly. Adding any sort of device to a bike that powers you along on the road should be licensed and require one. Same with scooters.
Bit trickier now we have rental ebikes, but just put a motor cut out when it hits a certain speed? I’m not a mechanic or engineer so not sure if that’s a gross oversimplification.
That or you have to have a license to use one. If you don’t you can use a Santander basic.
Bad cyclists get penalized against their driving license, which may stop them driving but won’t stop them cycling.
Am I missing something? This sounds awful. Something needs to be done about dangerous cyclists but this won’t do that.
Genuinely curious, what about those of us that don’t have a driving licence?
>Lord Hogan-Howe sad
The quality of journalism these days. Does no one proof read the ChatGPT output anymore?
A better solution would be to make the roads prioritise us, and make them safer for us. “Dangerous” because we shouldn’t have to behave like those who travel encased in metal. Insane.
Just be another one of those laws that never gets used.
LBC clickbait garbage and unenforcable on every level.
It’s a criminal conviction you’d have to mention in your job application, failing to do so could result in a summary dismissal if discovered later.
Are we that dangerous though? Other countries have far more cyclists and none of the measures mentioned here – their culture towards cycling is far more civilised.
I’m a life-long cyclist, 40 years+ biking. I’ve commuted, toured, raced, enjoyed Club socials and countless solo rides for training and fitness enjoying nature and my environment.
I’ve lived in several countries and experienced different attitudes towards cycling. The Dutch, Danish, Belgians have excellent cycling infrastructure and living and riding there has been a privilege.
The Spanish and Portuguese in my experience very tolerant towards cycling.
The UK? Hostile.
We are demonised and hated which means that the relative few who do behave badly are amplified and seen as examples of us all. We slow their all-important progress at higher speeds and therefore evil. Inhumane. Yet, I’ve had motor vehicles deliberately try to knock me off at speeds that could kill me, I’ve been sworn at from motorists passing on the opposite side of the road who just felt the need to vent their disgust to one of the ‘collective’ of cyclists. We face limb and even life-threatening behaviour from motorists every single week, if not day. But motorists deem us dangerous.
I am a paid up member of British Cycling with the associated insurances and legal representation. I wear a helmet at all times, I don’t run red lights and I’ll pull over to allow motor vehicles past if the road is narrow and I’m holding them up – as a motorist too, I’m aware and want to ensure we all make safe progress. Still, I’m demonised.
Cyclists do have a duty to be responsible and knowledgeable road users, of course. I’d like to see compulsory cycle training, the passing of the Highway Code Theory exam, the wearing of helmets and spot fines for breaking the law. I’d welcome some measure of 3rd party insurance too – as I have got – but that is obviously very sensitive and debatable given kids cycle too and we can’t be adding barriers to that.
I’m in the camp that registration is not worth the effort.
When I read complaints about cyclists running red lights etc it seems to be mostly in cities and towns. Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Ghent etc have infrastructure that largely solves that issue and makes motoring and cycling coexist far more amicably. The UK has a long way to go before it will match what they have, sadly.
There are some new cycle paths that are praise-worthy and the Leeds Elor system is one of those – as a lycra-clad competitive cyclist I enjoy leaving the road to join that when I’m in the area. Imagine that level of infrastructure everywhere? Everyone happy.
There is a serious discussion that needs to be had about cycling safety, rules of the road, sharing of the road network. I’d welcome more than mere lip-service, dribs and drabs with infrastructure and the demonising that exists – perhaps then a grown-up, more civilised series of solutions might follow.
Well, if they’re cycling unsafely then fair enough that they face consequences.
Every time someone looks into this sort of thing with regard to cyclists it quickly becomes apparent that it’s completely unworkable. 18 months later someone else has a try and the exact same thing happens.
> He added: “I don’t think road traffic law has maintained the accountability of cyclists in a way that motor vehicles are regulated.”
Because motor vehicles are inherently much more dangerous. That’s why they’re regulated differently.
The whole idea of regulating cyclists like this is completely unworkable and ridiculous when you consider the actual threat from them is miniscule. The real solution is just build decent cycle infrastructure. *Real* cycle routes, not just some fucking paint on a road that’s not wide enough.