The Seljuk Turks are from the Central Steppes and lacked a sophisticated understanding of art so they copied from those they conquered, especially Armenians. Their cemeteries feature tombstones resembling Armenian Khachkars. While Khachkars have mostly been destroyed, the Seljuk ones survive.

https://www.reddit.com/gallery/1fb2nhw

Posted by JeanJauresJr

8 Comments

  1. West_Profession_9821 on

    What you try to say is simply racism and hatred combined with nationalism. Seljuks encountered incredible cultures on their way to anatolia, way before encountering armenians they have already built monuments in todays Iran.

  2. >Lacked a sophisticated understanding of art

    Bro why are you adding this? It’s so unnecessarily racist.

    Yes, surprise surprise the Seljuks were influenced by Armenians. A lot of Ottoman art was.

    More likely then not they didn’t even copy, but convert Armenians built those, or Christian Armenians built them by getting paid, like the Balyan’s built mosques.

    **Not only that, a simple google search will correct your misinformation**

    >Although the tombstones are known as Seljukid era, **according to the governorship of Ahlat they belong to the era of the Shah-Armens, Ayyubid dynasty, the Mongol and the Safavid eras.**

    Also:

    >Among these, only the Kale cemetery has Ottoman tombs.

    So it wasn’t fully “Seljuk”

    You are not only misinforming people here, but adding in your little spice of unnecessary hatred.

    Because you would not say the same about us “copying” Arabic culture:

    >This dogmatic choice was also reflected, after the Arab occupation, by the creation of a new type of stela, **the khachkar**, or cross-stone, an emblem of Armenian spirituality and Christology.12 From the 9th century onward, Armenia was covered with thousands of khachkars on which the cross is always sculpted as a tree of life, and never as the instrument of the human sufferings of Christ. Over time, the edg- es of these stelae were covered with a wide band adorned with in- terlaces where, while expressing the hope of eternal life, a kinship bond was established with the world of Islam. These interlaces be- came denser and tended to cover the entire available surface. **At the beginning of the 11th century, a new motif appeared under the foot of the cross: two flared palmettes, placed horizontally [fig. 10a], to which an Arab origin can be attributed.**

    Or the fact that you yourself **are misattributing** Armenian built architecture as something stolen:

    >Indeed, “despite a dearth of names and masons’ marks pertaining to Armenian craftsmen” (McClary 2017, 31), the inscriptions engraved on a few Seljuk and Ilkhanid buildings of Anatolia seem to indicate an Armenian origin, hypothetical for some architects, and certain for two of them. Particularly important is a group of builders from Khlat (in Armenian), Khilāt (in Arabic), Ahlat (in Turkish), an Armeni- an city and a port on the northwestern shore of lake Van, whose population was in part Islamized.

    Or **erasing** Armenian culture:

    >**Note that the local Turkmen rulers, in the 12th-early 13th century, called themselves ʻShah-i Armenʼ (King of Armenians). See further about Khlat’s medieval Muslim cemetery and the very close links between its stelae and khachkars.**

    https://edizionicafoscari.unive.it/media/pdf/books/978-88-6969-469-1/978-88-6969-469-1-ch-05_Buxliq2.pdf

    Pseudohistory is not a good look. And just because Our neighbors do it, doesn’t mean we have to do it too. You can start with the link above.

    And maybe get a degree before talking.

  3. It is ridiculous to say the Seljuks lacked a sophisticated understanding of art. Some of the most innovative mosques and mausoleums in West Asia, even southeast of Armenia, [date specifically from the Seljuk period.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1b/Gran_Mezquita_de_Isfah%C3%A1n%2C_Isfahan%2C_Ir%C3%A1n%2C_2016-09-19%2C_DD_43-45_HDR_Alt.jpg/800px-Gran_Mezquita_de_Isfah%C3%A1n%2C_Isfahan%2C_Ir%C3%A1n%2C_2016-09-19%2C_DD_43-45_HDR_Alt.jpg) That they had the inspiration to combine Armenian stonemasonry and architectural forms with Persianate sculptural decoration, and to select from the best regional architects, demonstrated their taste and eventually resulted in one of the most distinctive [architectural styles of the High Middle Ages.](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Divrigi%2CN-P1.jpg/800px-Divrigi%2CN-P1.jpg)

    The influence also went two ways. [Khachkars before the Seljuk period](https://i.postimg.cc/ZKqbX46J/image.png) look very different and lack the characteristic ornamentation and schematic you seen in the most famous examples. The same went towards the new Seljuk-inspired facades and portals you see in Armenian churches from the 12th century onwards. An example of both from [Goshavank.](https://global-geography.org/attach/Geography/Asia/Georgia/Pictures/Lake_Sevan/Goshavank_-_Grigor_Luysavorich_Church_Portal_and_Khachkar/AR0456_Bibliothek_Goschavankhjpg.jpg)

    There is this [good website](https://sites.courtauld.ac.uk/crossingfrontiers/) run by the Courtald Institute of Art showcasing the relationship between Armenian and Seljuk architecture from this period.

    Anatolian Seljuk works of art should be considered part of the Armenian cultural legacy but it’s silly to suggest that they had no other influences or inspirations of their own.

  4. These actually look really cool tbh. Makes me wish more cultures adopted the tradition so we could see their own take on khachqars.