Good morning folks, so today we’re talking about teaching.

If you have seen my other posts you know that I talk about a bit of everything, this is because on the one hand I am a very horizontal person, especially on an educational level, on the other because I am involved in politics. However, since teaching is one of the paths I am pursuing for my future, it is a topic on which I feel I can make an important contribution over time.

Since teaching is becoming increasingly difficult, perhaps it is time to understand for a moment what the situation is. Let’s start from what is then the premise, the excuse if you like, used to justify some of the most heavy-handed maneuvers against future teachers (but also those who already practice):

According to various studies, Italian students are relatively mediocre compared to other nations https://www.statista.com/statistics/1084528/europe-pisa-results-by-category/

https://invalsi-areaprove.cineca.it/docs/2024/Rilevazioni_Nazionali/Rapporto/Sintesi%20primi%20risultati%20prove%20INVALSI%202024.pdf

However, note a slight recent improvement, which is something to take into consideration later, towards the end.

Now this ""problem"" It is being waved around to justify a series of measures that provide additional training for future teachers.

At the moment, in the last year, let’s say, it is necessary after or during the master’s degree to obtain another 60 CFU aimed at improving the student’s training in terms of teaching, pedagogy and so on, plus an additional year of internship.

For this year of internship (obviously unpaid, we are in Italy after all) it is not valid to have taught previously, with the availability for example. You just have to do it. The maximum ceiling in terms of cost for this additional training is €2500 and this training can also be provided by online universities.

In my university, ISEE will not be taken into account, but only a discount of €500 will be given if you are already enrolled, otherwise €2500 and so on. Even if you were to be able to discount some CFU from a previous training, well the cost will not decrease.

As for when and how these lessons will be delivered, there is a bit of a hair’s breadth to be gained, between overlapping with lessons, improvised and constantly changing stuff, there is even talk of lessons on the weekend.

Obviously then there is the competition and that in itself is fine.

Before the last reform of the 60 CFU there was the obligation to obtain 24 CFU in specific subjects, a person could obtain them within the regular course of study. This preparation was considered insufficient (the ill-thinking will say that not enough money was coming in because everything was included, but they will be thinking wrong), that probably a dedicated path was needed. However, woe betide anyone who opens (for obvious reasons) qualifying curricula, so that those who want to teach can choose them directly from the beginning, WORSE I. Now it is obvious to open a path, a curriculum costs. (Obviously we are talking about all those sectors that are not immediately dedicated to teaching, such as mathematics, physics, biology, chemistry, languages, philosophy)

I see it as adding insult to injury. Studying mathematics, I already have to kill myself (with pleasure, eh) on the regular subjects, then I also have to take everything else? For what then? Ehhh now we get to the for what, but first a further analysis.

Even before the 24 CFU, there was a competition and either you got the position or you entered a qualification and training course and then you entered. Or rather, you entered the ranking, because I speak as a future teacher, but there are still today 234000 precari (in the face of the permanent position eh!), who will also be overtaken by those who have already taken the 60 CFU. If this is justice, tell me (and I’m starting to say it again)

Surely thanks to the 60 CFU, our saviors descended from heaven, the super prepared teachers will know how to teach well and the students will improve. Maybe. Or maybe this is not the problem, what do you say, let’s start?

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/education-at-a-glance-2023_e13bef63-en

This document will be one of the reference points of the speech, it is a report on teaching in OECD.

Also important https://eurydice.eacea.ec.europa.eu/data-and-visuals/teachers-statutory-salaries#tab-1

I will relink them when necessary.

What if I told you that countries that are better than Italy in terms of performance require fewer requirements to teach?

Let’s take the case of secondary school (ISCED level 3-4 teaching)

https://eurydice.eacea.ec.europa.eu/data-and-visuals/teachers-statutory-salaries#tab-3

Austria, Ireland, United Kingdom (I searched manually), Latvia, Lithuania all better than Italy in terms of student performance require only the three-year (Bachelor’s Degree). And of those that require the master’s degree, however few need further requirements, at most they have a curriculum devoted to teaching. Similar to the current Italy is the Finnish education.

France

Spain

Germania

Sweden

Let’s move on, let’s move on.

Maybe we could take a look at how much governments in different countries spend on education, well let’s do that.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:General_government_total_expenditure_on_%27education%27,_2022_.png

Below us we have only Ireland, Romania, Bulgaria and Greece, and of these only Ireland was better than Italy in terms of student skills.

All other European nations spend more.

On page 319 of the OECD document you can also find the totals

Let’s continue analyzing.

A teacher, how many students does he have?

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20210907-1

from this graph it would seem that Italy has few students per teacher, but it doesn’t add up for me, it doesn’t add up with the ministerial indications, according to which classes must have a minimum of 27 students https://www.miur.gov.it/formazione-classi#:\~:text=Le%20classi%20della%20scuola%20secondaria%20superiore%20sono%20costituite%20con%20un,di%2030%20studenti%20per%20classe.

probably the data in that graph is intended at an overall level and in my opinion it simply divides the number of students by the number of professors, but this does not return the number of students per professor.

To say in high school if I were to have a first, a third and a fourth I would surely have a class of 27-30 students and two others that will be between 20 and 10 units in number, for a total of about 50 students to teach. Of course then there will be other teachers, but the subjects that I teach, I have to manage them. 50 class assignments, 50 oral tests, I have to manage them. And so do they.

Already if we look at class sizes, we can see that Italy is in the middle. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1078267/students-per-class-in-europe/ which is already different.

And it is also important to understand How many hours does a teacher work (table D4)

Again, Italy is in the middle. But these are the hours de iure. Because the amount of work done at home, "behind the scenes" it is much higher than declared. At least if the teacher cares about the profession. It is, if we want, unpaid overtime. And speaking of payments, let’s take a moment to look at the salaries, what do you think?

https://eurydice.eacea.ec.europa.eu/data-and-visuals/teachers-statutory-salaries#tab-1

By removing the various bars, we see that Italy is quite mediocre in terms of minimum wage, being in the middle and, apart from a couple of exceptions, what is below Italy in terms of salary is also below Italy in terms of student performance.

But there is more besides that you get similar data if you look at the hourly wage, in fact it would seem to improve our position, if it were not for all those unofficial hours. Of course one can say other nations have them, but I have my doubts since in my opinion there is a problem of mentality behind it.

If we then look at career advancement and how much more can be done, we see that Italy is quite behind. More generally, however, there is one thing to take into account: teachers’ salaries have not kept pace with inflation. If we do the math, using 2003 as a base year, those who teach today earn about four fifths (in proportion) of those who started teaching in 2003.

Then we can talk about living conditions in other countries, of course, but in my opinion the crux of the matter is this: teaching is being made less and less accessible and more and more frustrating.

Most of the serious news cases involving teachers tell of problems unrelated to training and at most connected to the criminal tendencies of the teachers themselves.

There is also an impoverishment of the educational capacity of the teacher because his role is increasingly diminished. Indeed, it has become almost risky to educate students correctly, to fail them, to give low grades, to give notes, to scold. Families support these behaviors and often defend them.

Teachers have a real difficulty finding themselves almost alone and above all hindered in carrying out their job. Even still there was a beautiful salary behind it, but instead it becomes exhausting and humiliating.

Among other things, there has been a path of intentional worsening of school education, desired at ministerial level, because secondary education institutes are increasingly being channeled towards teaching aimed at immediate work. (Be careful, there is nothing wrong with vocational schools, but it can be, and indeed a problem for high schools)

  • The Moratti reform. Which introduced school-work alternation for high schools.
  • The Gelmini reform. And all its cuts, both to hours and to staff.
  • The Good School. With the obligation of school-work alternation.

Let’s add perhaps also the transformation of the school from a place of life and education to a simple place of study and learning. The children do not stay at school except for courses, canteens are very rare, a dilution of the timetable including the afternoon is not carried out.

It is clear to me that the aim is to train machines and gears, not people or individuals. And so it is normal that if you do tests that evaluate something else, the students will not do very well. But fortunately this trend is reversible.

And in the meantime the burden on teachers (current and future) increases.

So yes, then one wonders, but why would I take these 60 CFU, if I have to go in this direction.

This is the post. Maybe towards the end it became mediocre, but I got a bit tired and it became long. As a politician and as a future teacher these issues are close to my heart. Between September and October I intend to seriously shake things up. This if you like is a bit of a test, a bad first of the speeches I will carry on later.

I hope it will interest you and even encourage you to reflect in depth and to have a debate with consequent reflections. We’ll see, we’ll see..

L'insegnamento in Italia: tra 60 CFU, stipendi bassi, malizia e abusi di ogni sorta
byu/AkagamiBarto initaly



Posted by AkagamiBarto

6 Comments

  1. Vi do io il paradosso più grande; poi giudicate voi.

    Un laureato triennale in matematica può essere regolarmente assunto dalla propria università per fare il tutor della didattica: dopotutto al 90% lo fanno gli *studenti* magistrali, che essendo studenti per definizione ancora non sono *laureati* magistrali. Il tutoraggio si fa agli studenti triennali, spesso matricole ma non solo, su argomenti che sono quindi universitari: perciò analisi I e II, algebra lineare, matematica discreta; a volte anche teoria dei gruppi e oltre, se il tutoraggio lo si fa proprio agli studenti del corso di laurea in matematica.

    Ma un laureato triennale in matematica **NON** può insegnare a scuola senza la laurea magistrale. Né superiori, né medie.

    Col risultato che un laureato triennale *non* ha la capacità legale di insegnare come risolvere un sistema di equazioni di primo grado al biennio delle superiori, ma ha la capacità legale di essere pagato dall’università per dare lezioni o aiuto privato su spazi vettoriali, funzioni a più variabili o teorema d’omomorfismo.

    Qual è il senso?

  2. WhyAaatroxWhy on

    Nel frattempo c’è gente che ancora insegna con la quinta superiore e basta.

    Una mia zia insegna alle elementari e i suoi studenti vengono da me (insegnante wannabe) a prendere ripetizioni perché lei non è capace di insegnare inglese.

  3. Ti giuro, l’ho letto tutto, e ho trovato molte cose giuste. Tuttavia, replicherò con un articolo:

    [https://www.fanpage.it/roma/disegnate-i-nomi-dei-compagni-che-volete-morti-sospesa-maestra-di-una-scuola-elementare/](https://www.fanpage.it/roma/disegnate-i-nomi-dei-compagni-che-volete-morti-sospesa-maestra-di-una-scuola-elementare/)

    “Durante una lezione in una classe di seconda elementare avrebbe detto agli studenti: ‘Disegnate i nomi dei vostri compagni che volete morti’.”

    “Si sarebbe sporta da una finestra dondolandosi mentre si teneva alla corda della serranda”

    “Aggressioni ai danni di un alunno con disabilità chiedendogli perché l’aveva presa a calci tutta la notte”

    “L’ufficio scolastico regionale ha sospeso per sei mesi la docente”

    In qualunque altro posto di lavoro se mi dondolo dalla finestra e aggredisco i clienti finisco in mezzo alla strada. Un’insegnante viene sospesa sei mesi e solo quando la cosa finisce sui giornali. Sono sicuro che anche in questo thread ci sarà la fiera di esilaranti ricordi di scuola con insegnanti che facevano di tutto tranne lavorare. Ce li ho pure io che ho fatto il liceo in un territorio abbastanza agiato.

    Gli insegnanti come categoria hanno fatto un patto col diavolo: una volta che sono di ruolo possono smettere di lavorare che tanto sono illicenziabili e intoccabili. In cambio, accettano di essere pagati una (relativa, nell’Italia attuale) miseria e di essere lasciati soli a vedersela con ragazzi e genitori.

    Ogni riforma non può partire subito dal “pagate e sostenete di più gli insegnanti” senza che vengano introdotti modi per mandare via chi non ha nessuna capacità né voglia di insegnare. Ma appena si bisbiglia di fare qualcosa del genere, scatta la difesa di categoria. E allora tenetevi la situazione così com’è.

  4. > I ragazzi non rimangono a scuola se non per corsi, le mense sono molto rare, una diluizione dell’orario comprendendo il pomeriggio non viene effettuata.

    Per me questo risolverebbe un buon numero di problemi della società moderna. Le famiglie avrebbero meno problemi a gestire i ragazzi in orario lavorativo, ci sarebbe posto per più docenti, i ragazzi avrebbero una formazione continua e un po’ più omogenea tra agiati (ripetizioni, aiuto dai genitori, computer, internet) e disagiati (N fratelli, genitori assenti, contesto di povertà). E’ forse uno dei pochi problemi direttamente risolvibile con più fondi senza troppi giri organizzativi.

  5. Tutto vero e anche molto bello, ma come sempre quando si parla di scuola si parla del posto di lavoro del corpo docente e non tanto del posto dove i ragazzi dovrebbero ricevere una istruzione.

    Tanto non so se avete capito come gira il vento ma é chiaro che la direzione che si é presa con la scuola pubblica é quella di “non risolvere” e aprire alla crescita di scuole private.

  6. E tutto questo grazie anche alla fantastica riforma del “governo dei migliori” di Draghi. Pensa se fossero stati i peggiori.