Lifetimes of anti-union propaganda from our corporate overlords?
spacemonkey629 on
Unions have a very specific use case. We can’t be ambivalent about it when things are good and suddenly pro-union when things are bad. Tech workers are very well paid, well taken care of and have very good benefits. I bring my dog to work, have free massages, free gym classes, eat free food, work as many hours as I want as long as I finish my work, get stock options, health and retirement. I bring it up because the reason for the good treatment is that it’s a competitive market for talent. It’s a stark difference from line workers who have to work x amount of labor hours standing up and meet quotas, with not even profit sharing, health or retirement (back in the day). Also there is a talent pool thing, it’s hard for avg person to learn coding. IMO unions are more for improving work conditions and not disgruntled or low performing employees or even shitty management. There is an argument for like gaming industry which is known in the tech space for insane hours. But I’ve worked at several (big, small, startups) and TBH if you’re good at coding, it’s a very cush and rewarding job. We’re not exactly working in hazardous and unsafe conditions. Plus there’s hasn’t been an issue finding a job if you’re good. There’s just so many players and startup vs the auto industry which only has a few big players. Could tech unionize, sure but I think we’re losing the true purpose of unionization. If we need a counter balance for bad management then I would advocate for employee rep on boards. Otherwise the environment for bad management decisions is sometimes hard. And in this space it’s reliant on funding rounds (in the past) and not exactly profitability so it’s hard to say it’s bad management not foreseeing future interest rates or funding environment or tech adoption. Or even dip in sales. EVs and VRs were hot and not. No one forsee AI picking up steam so quickly. Tech itself is hard to predict and fast, hence why it’s such a hotbed for VC money
Just_Will5206 on
Unionizing unfortunately doesn’t prevent layoffs, it protects workers rights in regards to employers taking advantage of workers(my union provides equal pay for men and women for the same job as well as guaranteeing a set wage with possible increases depending on contact negotiations). As long as there is work available no lay offs, if there is a company that’s unionized and the work is slowing down or just stopping they will do what they need to to survive.
aresdesmoulins on
Some of us are…at my Amazon/AWS branch we are unionized. There were still layoffs, but our layoff and termination severance as a company is already quite significant, so there’s not a huge change there compared to non-union shops. Just because you’re unionized doesn’t mean you won’t still get fired or laid off, though it does mean that you have someone to collectively bargain on your behalf which is definitely nice.
Remember kids, HR is there to protect the company, not you. It’s a great feeling to have someone to go to that is on your side.
cutiemcpie on
Tech pays stupid huge salaries to the outliers. Outliers don’t don’t do well in unions.
biddilybong on
They make too much money/have too much to lose/apathetic
act_ract_2 on
Cause they make too much money for that, period. It’s as simple as that, all that liberal farce they pull on twitter, tech workers are extreme selfish indiviual that will not sacrifice their salaries for anything.
Sweet-Sale-7303 on
Tech has to create its own Union. Most Unions do not care about tech at all. I am CSEA and have been told multiple times they do not care about IT. So, I pay $60 a paycheck for them not to care about me.
WorkerEquivalent4278 on
Trying to join or organize a union is grounds for immediate termination here, in a right to work state. No recourse.
How many tech workers in the US are there with an H1B work visa? I’m guessing those people won’t ever risk being fired and forced to go back to their home country in the name of better treatment of future workers.
There’s WAY too much money to be made now, enough to feed even the family abroad with a little percentage of US-made money.
And US corporations know this and will abuse this situation to the limit.
willy1917 on
There is a much bigger part to play with actual unions running campaigns into tech to unionise workers. Much harder to do than with areas already heavenly steeped in history and culture of unionisation such as train workers or teamsters. Unions serious about organising workers in areas like tech need to put their finger out and put money/resources into recruiting the best layers as reps/organisers for these industries.
Antique_Ad3944 on
Why the hell unionizing ? Am I like a burger’s flipper needing some lunatic speaking on my behalf and negotiating my compensation/right ?
We did not reach 6-7 figures compensation by relying on some socialist kind of organization.
If companies dont want me onboard, I just create my startup and be my own boss (and I probably will be competing with my previous employer).
Exciting-Ad-7083 on
It’s also not really lay-offs perse, it’s all just offshoring.
jumbocards on
Cuz most people can actually find another tech job within few months even if laid off, the fact of the matter is that tech workers change jobs very frequently anyway (that’s how they increase their salary, not by tenure). So union makes no sense.
Regularjoe42 on
Everyone with foresight and leadership leaves.
Havoc_the_Menace on
Because we already don’t want to deal with the users and management we have. Adding a union is more users and more management.
Eric848448 on
What is the end game? Force big companies to keep pointless projects going?
Gen-Jinjur on
Unions don’t prevent lay-offs.
Most state employees are unionized and they have lay-offs whenever the dimwit politicians decide to cut costs. But what the union does do is make sure that last hired are laid-off first. So if you are a long-time incompetent nincompoop whose job is eliminated, they move you to another job that has a similar title that you are unqualified for. And they let the terrific younger employees go. And do nothing for them.
I am pro-union all the way but feel like they do things stupidly sometimes.
max1001 on
ROFL. Unions means low raises every few years for everyone regardless of performance usually. Developers expect 10 percent annual raises or they start crying about it.
DOGEFLIEP on
Because they are tech workers lol
Superb-Obligation858 on
Many are? Also union busting never has any repercussions outside of a small fine or two?
anti-torque on
They need to update the accumulator?
hitbythebus on
I feel like the surplus of unemployed tech workers just means they can fire a lot more union supporters, and it will be easy to hire replacements.
No-Emergency-4602 on
This actually seems like a good tech project/startup to allow people to organize via the web in an anonymous way, then once you reach a critical mass of support you can opt to organize in real life…. As a way to take risk out of the process and avoid getting shut down by the company.
CommunicationDry6756 on
Because we dont want the tech industry to become what its like in Europe.
Nik_Tesla on
Unionizing does not stop layoffs, it just puts specific rules around it (minimum X days notice, metrics for who is laid off like seniority). If anything, unions stop people from being fired at-will much more than they stop layoffs.
I’m not saying unionizing would be bad, I’m just saying, it isn’t some magic “stop layoffs” fix.
Mobius--Stripp on
“Stop firing us or we’re going to stop working! And also, don’t look at the tens of thousands of bright young grads eager to have our positions. Haha, got you where we want you!”
xubax on
In many cases, it’s not like a factory where there are 100s of people doing similar jobs.
Until recently, at my job, there was only me who did what I do.
FVjake on
My personal take is that it’s because we generally haven’t needed to. We were well paid and treated pretty good because we were a valuable asset that was harder to replace. I’ve been out of work since February so I definitely don’t feel like that anymore.
Motor_Coffee_9767 on
Because they were mostly imported and are dime a dozen
Twistybred on
Unions don’t prevent layoffs
matali on
“Tech workers” is not a single class or group of people. Value typically stems from individual knowledge and skills.
happyscrappy on
Because they’re getting paid a huge amount of money. And the number of layoffs are small. Few people see themselves as likely to be laid off. And most of them are right about it (but not all).
They see the individual opportunity for them to be greater than the downsides and so aren’t looking for any kind of “leveling” because they think it’ll hold them back instead of propping them up.
It’s amazing the amount of time people spend pitying tech workers who are making often $200K a year. They literally spend no time worrying about money, except perhaps how this will impact them getting that second house in the mountains.
Cicero912 on
Cause there isnt a point to a union in an in demand field
ZombieJesusSunday on
Lmao 🤣 unions can cause downsizing or jobs moving overseas. Unions cannot prevent downsizing.
dogzi on
Probably because tech companies are slowly outsourcing more and more positions outside the country. Unions only work if they have leverage.
Because tech bros have bought into their own hype and think they’re too smart/talented to be replaced
Warrlock608 on
I’m in a union and working in IT and personally I am not a fan. It might be good when I’m in my 50s, but right now all it is doing is forcing me to work with near retired slackers with the skillsets of toddlers. They know there is no getting rid of them and work accordingly.
For the record, I am very pro-union. I think they are good in non-skilled positions where the workers can be exploited, but I just don’t see that in the tech industry at large.
You know who should unionize? Game Programmers.
DestroyerOfIphone on
I would join a IT union in a heartbeat.
SvenTropics on
Generally, it would actually be a bad idea. There’s still a ton of jobs in tech. They really just overhired for a lot of years and now things are normalizing. If you develop a specialty skill set, you can make super high wages by switching jobs periodically and just upgrading with each switch. The trick is to have no company loyalty. You want to switch jobs frequently because you get a pay bump with each move. If everyone was unionized, pay would be on scales, and that wouldn’t happen. It would be better for the low end staff engineers that are compelled to work 80 hours a week for 65k a year, but, for anyone above that, it would be a step down.
Cristianator on
Tech workers being the highest on the dunning Krueger scale.
90% of them think they are Einstein for knowing how to wrote in C, while ignoring all the complex factors of political economy because zero Interest rates subsidised their make work jobs.
Now that it’s ended and the snake has come back to bite them ,they suddenly remembered their solidarity..
How many of these same people laughed at nurses /teachers and asked them to learn how to code?
Echelon64 on
Because most tech workers think they’ll be the next wunderkind and are too good to join the other shit bags who can’t code.
Big_Forever5759 on
Maybe they should write an app for that. Simple unionizing app and its subscription. Download, subscribe and vote to unionize. Then comes a big shot lawyer to drum up the paperwork and negotiate basic pay rate. All for $99/yr per employee. Then any additional benefits or rule is an extra $19.99.
The Uber for unions lol.
45 Comments
Lifetimes of anti-union propaganda from our corporate overlords?
Unions have a very specific use case. We can’t be ambivalent about it when things are good and suddenly pro-union when things are bad. Tech workers are very well paid, well taken care of and have very good benefits. I bring my dog to work, have free massages, free gym classes, eat free food, work as many hours as I want as long as I finish my work, get stock options, health and retirement. I bring it up because the reason for the good treatment is that it’s a competitive market for talent. It’s a stark difference from line workers who have to work x amount of labor hours standing up and meet quotas, with not even profit sharing, health or retirement (back in the day). Also there is a talent pool thing, it’s hard for avg person to learn coding. IMO unions are more for improving work conditions and not disgruntled or low performing employees or even shitty management. There is an argument for like gaming industry which is known in the tech space for insane hours. But I’ve worked at several (big, small, startups) and TBH if you’re good at coding, it’s a very cush and rewarding job. We’re not exactly working in hazardous and unsafe conditions. Plus there’s hasn’t been an issue finding a job if you’re good. There’s just so many players and startup vs the auto industry which only has a few big players. Could tech unionize, sure but I think we’re losing the true purpose of unionization. If we need a counter balance for bad management then I would advocate for employee rep on boards. Otherwise the environment for bad management decisions is sometimes hard. And in this space it’s reliant on funding rounds (in the past) and not exactly profitability so it’s hard to say it’s bad management not foreseeing future interest rates or funding environment or tech adoption. Or even dip in sales. EVs and VRs were hot and not. No one forsee AI picking up steam so quickly. Tech itself is hard to predict and fast, hence why it’s such a hotbed for VC money
Unionizing unfortunately doesn’t prevent layoffs, it protects workers rights in regards to employers taking advantage of workers(my union provides equal pay for men and women for the same job as well as guaranteeing a set wage with possible increases depending on contact negotiations). As long as there is work available no lay offs, if there is a company that’s unionized and the work is slowing down or just stopping they will do what they need to to survive.
Some of us are…at my Amazon/AWS branch we are unionized. There were still layoffs, but our layoff and termination severance as a company is already quite significant, so there’s not a huge change there compared to non-union shops. Just because you’re unionized doesn’t mean you won’t still get fired or laid off, though it does mean that you have someone to collectively bargain on your behalf which is definitely nice.
Remember kids, HR is there to protect the company, not you. It’s a great feeling to have someone to go to that is on your side.
Tech pays stupid huge salaries to the outliers. Outliers don’t don’t do well in unions.
They make too much money/have too much to lose/apathetic
Cause they make too much money for that, period. It’s as simple as that, all that liberal farce they pull on twitter, tech workers are extreme selfish indiviual that will not sacrifice their salaries for anything.
Tech has to create its own Union. Most Unions do not care about tech at all. I am CSEA and have been told multiple times they do not care about IT. So, I pay $60 a paycheck for them not to care about me.
Trying to join or organize a union is grounds for immediate termination here, in a right to work state. No recourse.
Unions are a type of not for profit. Pretty sure you guys can just start one of those up. Here’s what [the IRS ](https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/other-non-profits/labor-organizations)has to say about them.
sudo apt-get.
How many tech workers in the US are there with an H1B work visa? I’m guessing those people won’t ever risk being fired and forced to go back to their home country in the name of better treatment of future workers.
There’s WAY too much money to be made now, enough to feed even the family abroad with a little percentage of US-made money.
And US corporations know this and will abuse this situation to the limit.
There is a much bigger part to play with actual unions running campaigns into tech to unionise workers. Much harder to do than with areas already heavenly steeped in history and culture of unionisation such as train workers or teamsters. Unions serious about organising workers in areas like tech need to put their finger out and put money/resources into recruiting the best layers as reps/organisers for these industries.
Why the hell unionizing ? Am I like a burger’s flipper needing some lunatic speaking on my behalf and negotiating my compensation/right ?
We did not reach 6-7 figures compensation by relying on some socialist kind of organization.
If companies dont want me onboard, I just create my startup and be my own boss (and I probably will be competing with my previous employer).
It’s also not really lay-offs perse, it’s all just offshoring.
Cuz most people can actually find another tech job within few months even if laid off, the fact of the matter is that tech workers change jobs very frequently anyway (that’s how they increase their salary, not by tenure). So union makes no sense.
Everyone with foresight and leadership leaves.
Because we already don’t want to deal with the users and management we have. Adding a union is more users and more management.
What is the end game? Force big companies to keep pointless projects going?
Unions don’t prevent lay-offs.
Most state employees are unionized and they have lay-offs whenever the dimwit politicians decide to cut costs. But what the union does do is make sure that last hired are laid-off first. So if you are a long-time incompetent nincompoop whose job is eliminated, they move you to another job that has a similar title that you are unqualified for. And they let the terrific younger employees go. And do nothing for them.
I am pro-union all the way but feel like they do things stupidly sometimes.
ROFL. Unions means low raises every few years for everyone regardless of performance usually. Developers expect 10 percent annual raises or they start crying about it.
Because they are tech workers lol
Many are? Also union busting never has any repercussions outside of a small fine or two?
They need to update the accumulator?
I feel like the surplus of unemployed tech workers just means they can fire a lot more union supporters, and it will be easy to hire replacements.
This actually seems like a good tech project/startup to allow people to organize via the web in an anonymous way, then once you reach a critical mass of support you can opt to organize in real life…. As a way to take risk out of the process and avoid getting shut down by the company.
Because we dont want the tech industry to become what its like in Europe.
Unionizing does not stop layoffs, it just puts specific rules around it (minimum X days notice, metrics for who is laid off like seniority). If anything, unions stop people from being fired at-will much more than they stop layoffs.
I’m not saying unionizing would be bad, I’m just saying, it isn’t some magic “stop layoffs” fix.
“Stop firing us or we’re going to stop working! And also, don’t look at the tens of thousands of bright young grads eager to have our positions. Haha, got you where we want you!”
In many cases, it’s not like a factory where there are 100s of people doing similar jobs.
Until recently, at my job, there was only me who did what I do.
My personal take is that it’s because we generally haven’t needed to. We were well paid and treated pretty good because we were a valuable asset that was harder to replace. I’ve been out of work since February so I definitely don’t feel like that anymore.
Because they were mostly imported and are dime a dozen
Unions don’t prevent layoffs
“Tech workers” is not a single class or group of people. Value typically stems from individual knowledge and skills.
Because they’re getting paid a huge amount of money. And the number of layoffs are small. Few people see themselves as likely to be laid off. And most of them are right about it (but not all).
They see the individual opportunity for them to be greater than the downsides and so aren’t looking for any kind of “leveling” because they think it’ll hold them back instead of propping them up.
It’s amazing the amount of time people spend pitying tech workers who are making often $200K a year. They literally spend no time worrying about money, except perhaps how this will impact them getting that second house in the mountains.
Cause there isnt a point to a union in an in demand field
Lmao 🤣 unions can cause downsizing or jobs moving overseas. Unions cannot prevent downsizing.
Probably because tech companies are slowly outsourcing more and more positions outside the country. Unions only work if they have leverage.
[https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-lays-off-employees-shifts-some-roles-abroad-amid-cost-cuts-2024-04-17/](https://www.reuters.com/technology/google-lays-off-employees-shifts-some-roles-abroad-amid-cost-cuts-2024-04-17/)
They’ll just get smashed.
Because tech bros have bought into their own hype and think they’re too smart/talented to be replaced
I’m in a union and working in IT and personally I am not a fan. It might be good when I’m in my 50s, but right now all it is doing is forcing me to work with near retired slackers with the skillsets of toddlers. They know there is no getting rid of them and work accordingly.
For the record, I am very pro-union. I think they are good in non-skilled positions where the workers can be exploited, but I just don’t see that in the tech industry at large.
You know who should unionize? Game Programmers.
I would join a IT union in a heartbeat.
Generally, it would actually be a bad idea. There’s still a ton of jobs in tech. They really just overhired for a lot of years and now things are normalizing. If you develop a specialty skill set, you can make super high wages by switching jobs periodically and just upgrading with each switch. The trick is to have no company loyalty. You want to switch jobs frequently because you get a pay bump with each move. If everyone was unionized, pay would be on scales, and that wouldn’t happen. It would be better for the low end staff engineers that are compelled to work 80 hours a week for 65k a year, but, for anyone above that, it would be a step down.
Tech workers being the highest on the dunning Krueger scale.
90% of them think they are Einstein for knowing how to wrote in C, while ignoring all the complex factors of political economy because zero Interest rates subsidised their make work jobs.
Now that it’s ended and the snake has come back to bite them ,they suddenly remembered their solidarity..
How many of these same people laughed at nurses /teachers and asked them to learn how to code?
Because most tech workers think they’ll be the next wunderkind and are too good to join the other shit bags who can’t code.
Maybe they should write an app for that. Simple unionizing app and its subscription. Download, subscribe and vote to unionize. Then comes a big shot lawyer to drum up the paperwork and negotiate basic pay rate. All for $99/yr per employee. Then any additional benefits or rule is an extra $19.99.
The Uber for unions lol.